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Discussion Starter #1
I stop by BMW Bellevue after work to see what was the deal with my car.

The SA told me that they concluded that it wasn't a hydraulic issue and that they have to pull the tranny out and I could be liable for 7 hours of work if it's determined that the clutch was abused. WTF????

I told him that there's NO WAY I'm going to allow them to charge me for anything that's related to a clutch that burns out after 8 days of owning the car with 30,000 miles. He's talking about he has to check with Sales to see if they'll cover it. I said fine, do whatever, but I'm not paying for it.

I told him that there's no way that I could have burned out the clutch in 325 miles and that they obviously didn't do a good job CPO'ing the car. He says he could burn out a clutch in 50 miles if he wanted. Whatever.


I also told him that I'll call a BMW rep and BMW NA if they don't cover the repair. He said he doesn't expect anything less.

We'll see what they say tomorrow.

I'm starting early: Anybody know what numbers I need to call for the rep in this area and BMW NA?
 

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Be really careful on the abuse issue. When a clutch is abused it overheats, and that leads to parts taking on a blue hue. If you roasted the clutch to the point where it smoked or smelled, there will be some blueing of the flywheel. They might interpret that as abuse, when in fact the clutch never grabbed well to begin with.
Sadly there is a gamble when it comes to this. Your SA knows about this issue if he has dealt with any other M5's before, as it is really common to toast the stock clutch. Contact BMW NA tomorrow at the earliest time possible and make a case on the car.
I could also toast a clutch in 50 miles, but the fact remains that it was defective when sold, so it should be replaced. I would have called my SA some colorful words if he said that to me...
:cheers:
 

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My M5 had 15K miles on it, the previous owner babied it but I could still smoke the clutch if I dropped it on the engine when it was making sufficient torque. You've really got to make sure the clutch is hooked up before you roll the power back on after a shift. Lots of threads on this board about this 'Achilles Heel' of the M5 and upgrades owners have done to fix the problem.
It's such a prevalent issue that one owner even created a virtual school on the subject! http://www.bmwm5.com/greg/school/

I'm not suggesting that you abused your clutch, but the feedback you're getting on this thread should explain why the service manager raised an eyebrow.
 

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Give the car back, You have the right to return it. If they don't cover it tell they salesmanager to take it back. Its hard to explain but you can return a car. Don't let them tell you anything else.


Regards,

Marion
 

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Mvious said:
Give the car back, You have the right to return it. If they don't cover it tell they salesmanager to take it back. Its hard to explain but you can return a car. Don't let them tell you anything else.


Regards,

Marion
Huh?

Marion- please explain, as this is one of the 'holy grails' of buying a car, namely once you operate a motorvehicle off the dealer property it is yours.

If you have other data please share.


KWP
On the issue of the clutch, I was going to comment on the other thread: while it is possible to burn out a clutch quickly, my feeling was this was probably bad when sold... Did you test the clutch operation prior to purchase? or, unfortunately, relied on the cpo?

Unless they agree to cover the costs IN ADVANCE, I wouldn't let them disassemble- you need to make sure someone on 'your side' can determine if it was already worn when it failed. IIRC, lscman had some posts on clutch failures, analysis and blame. Do your research here.

You might also need to take issue with the whole CPO process if they decline the claim- if you can show, via the cpo checklist and the actual condition of the car, that the cpo inspection was flawed and incomplete that may help with your claim that the dealer sold you a bad clutch. Here is the rub- if you can prove that did a bad cpo (or failed to inspect some things) then first you want to offer the dealer the option of making it right before you go to BMWNA....but low key so it doesn't seem like outright extortion.

Good Luck-

A
 

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I had to take my car back to the dealer when I bought it and I proved that they did a bad job CPOing it when I showed them that on the CPO check list there was a point where they have to check the windshield wipers, well my wipers were streaking like crazy .... so I said that there is no guarantee that they checked everything else since they missed this item .... in the end - they fixed all the squeaks and rattles in the doors, they refinished all my rims (only 2 were a bit scratched) and they replaced the wipers of course. ;)

it is not the same situation as yours but I did use the wipers as a way to show them that the CPO process might not have been all that thorough.
 

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If they messed around CPO'ing it that is serious business. I had a M3 that was CPO'd once but upon delivery (it was out of state) it was a mess. My local dealer spent 2500 bringing it up to CPO spec. The selling dealer was out on probation from what I heard. BMW was none to happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
NOW, the SA is saying that he's going to bat for me and that they agreed to replace the clutch if it's bad, but if the flywheel is scored, that it's my responsibility. They haven't even pulled the transmission yet.

I still say that's ridiculous! We'll see what he comes back with tomorrow.grrrrrrr
 

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KWP said:
NOW, the SA is saying that he's going to bat for me and that they agreed to replace the clutch if it's bad, but if the flywheel is scored, that it's my responsibility. They haven't even pulled the transmission yet.

I still say that's ridiculous! We'll see what he comes back with tomorrow.grrrrrrr
You could wait until he puts it on a work order, then once they've agreed in writing to the clutch you could get BMW involved.

Sounds like they are thinging 'well maybe we sold a car with a bad clutch, but he burned it up after it started to let go'... (hey, just guessing what they might be thinking) so they don't want to cover the flywheel.

Maybe tell the SA to just 'tell BMW that it is a failed SAC mechanism leading to clutch failure - if he can sell that to BMW then the flywheel should follow.

Do a search here on options for resurfacing versus replacing the flywheel. If it come to that you'd want to know the best option.

A
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Now they're willing to replace the clutch and go half ($450) with me on a new flywheel, if necessary. :rolleyes:

So much for my idea of great service with owning a BMW.
 

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KWP said:
Now they're willing to replace the clutch and go half ($450) with me on a new flywheel, if necessary. :rolleyes:
This sounds like a good deal to me! They are after all paying for all the labour costs and the clutch, bearings etc etc. $450 for half the flywheel is a bargain cosidering what the actually bill is going to be. You also have a new clutch that should last for another 25000 miles.

I think you have to accept a certain amount of responsibility for taking the car out and smoking the clutch once it started slipping, rather than returning it to the dealer for them to check it out.
 

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Mvious said:
Give the car back, You have the right to return it. If they don't cover it tell they salesmanager to take it back. Its hard to explain but you can return a car. Don't let them tell you anything else.


Regards,

Marion
Yes, you have 30 days to return the car if not satisfied. You should not have to pay for any repairs within the first 30 days of purchase. Warranty or not. Good Luck. Definetly contact BMWNA immediately.
 

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Beamer_usa said:
Yes, you have 30 days to return the car if not satisfied. You should not have to pay for any repairs within the first 30 days of purchase.
Great if true for KWP. Can you provide some authority for him?? It would certainly help him in his negotiations.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I called BMW NA and the young lady on the phone seems to side with the dealer regarding the maintenance program and warranty.

She said that she'll call the service manager and see what he says. I already talked to him and he told me basically that if the previous owner abused the car, then I'm still partially responsible for the repair. grrrrrrr
 

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Guys, i don't think there is anyway a reasonable person could fry a decent clutch that quickly. Have you talked with the salesman who sold you the car and the sales manager. I'd try that route, causally implying that a car that was certified should not have a failure like this, and try to find someone at bmwna who is involved with the cpo program. While it might be non-customary to 'check' the clutch as part of the cpo inspection, there should be some goodwill toward you at this point. I'd be pissed too if i were expected to pay for a new flywheel.

My cpo car had a rear main seal oil leak that "appeared" about 2 weeks after buying it. I thought i had noticed the clutch slip on a couple of occasions, but was not sure if it was my lack of familiarity with the car. I brought this up to the Sa, and then the service manager, who said if the oil leak damaged the clutch, it'd be covered (it was in the end). I got really irritated and asked, what if it's not? They initially implied it'd be on my own dime, which i said is not acceptable for a car i had for two weeks, and was "certified". In the end, the service manager called me, "good news, your clutch is oil soaked and the flywheel has "hot spots" on it so all will be covered under warranty (still under factory warranty at the time)".

Honestly, the cpo inspection is a joke at most dealerships, imho. To me, it's the warranty that has the value.
My car also had pixels out in the dash, i pointed that out to the saleman (purchased at different dealer than i usually use), who said "it's underwarranty, don't worry about it" to which i replied, so why not make the car perfect before you sell it, as part of the cpo?
Mike
 

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Here is why CPO cars are SO very special:

"Only the best pre-owned BMWs qualify for the Certified Pre-Owned BMW Vehicle Program. To be eligible for enrollment in the Certified Pre-Owned Vehicle Program, a late-model vehicle must be in service for at least six months or have more than 6,000 miles but less than 60,000 miles on the odometer. They must pass an extensive examination — a thorough and rigorous inspection by BMW factory-trained technicians. They inspect the vehicle for safety, performance and wear. If something is not right, it is fixed. If it cannot be fixed, the car cannot become a Certified Pre-Owned BMW.

In short, we're picky. But when you see everything covered under our Protection Plan, you'll understand why.

Ask to see the Certified Pre-Owned Inspection Checklist. It is your assurance of the quality, reliability and overall pleasure BMW owners have come to expect."

this from the BMW website.

I particularly liked:
They inspect the vehicle for safety, performance and wear. If something is not right, it is fixed.
 

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When I bought my 2001 from out of state it had 13k miles and was CPO. I didn't drive it hard on the test drive and took it easy driving the 6 hours home. The first time I did get on it, the clutch was slipping on 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. I couldn't believe that a car with 13000 miles would already need a clutch and that the dealer CPO'd it like that. I don't know what they do on the checklist to test the clutch, but like I said if you drove the car normally it ran fine it only slipped when you really got on it. Fortunately for me there was still a month left on the scheduled maintenance and my local dealer fixed it for no charge, but I called and gave the selling dealer an earfull for selling a CPO car with a bad clutch. I agree with the other posts that your best angle is the fact that the dealer sold a CPO car with a bad clutch. Ask them what they did as part of the checklist that would have tested the clutch. Tell them that the reason you bought from them and paid more than you would from private party or non BMW Dealer is because of the piece of mind that CPO is supposed to give.

Good Luck
 
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