[navyguy22]

Ok, Heres my issue, My check engine light is on, been on for about a week, didn't have the money to have a scan, still dont really, had a friend that works at BMW scan it. here's the issue:

Original ongoing problem, CEL, eats fuel, and kind of (actually very) jerky in low to mid RPM's or during some shifting, some times not noticeable, sometimes neck breaking. ???

Somewhat of a new problem: Even after sitting all night, starting the car I have about a 50 percent chance of the oil temp being normal at the middle gauge, or going strait to max temp, staying there the hole time I drive, or have it go to normal after a little bit of driving??? the car usually smells like its going to explode form the heat, but even when temp is indicated normal, seems like it runs hot. What the hell is wrong with this crap, The car was (assuming from all the maint. records i have from the original owner, ) well taken care of, so what the hells going on now.

I have the gt1 scan codes in the car will go get them and post them, but have heard oh its the MAF's, oh its the o2 sensors, oh this that, well which is it, Im really getting fed up and might just wreck it and take the insurance money lol, I love this car, but this is frustrating, any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED, I live in VA Beach Virginia, and if anyone local can help that would be awesome as well.


Here are the codes, from the BMW dealership:


They gave me a print out, so here it is:

(PAGE 1)

73 signal, mass air flow sensor, implausible recorded as 1th fault in memory.

Type of fault at 1the occurrence
the fault is currently present.

(OBDII code: p0101)

detected 1 times
mileage 167790 km, on 1th occurrence
engine speed 1440 rpm
engine load 16 percent
coolant temp 90 degrees Celsius
supply voltage -12V

(PAGE 2)

Oxygen sensor controller, bank 1
control factor 1.0

oxygen sensor controller, bank 2
control factor: 1.00

ox(or Ox, or 0X). - sensor control, bank 1: not active ''''--not sure if was ox 0x or Ox---''''
ox(or Ox, or 0X). - sensor control, bank 2: not active


additive mixture adaption
(idle speed) bank 1 -0.498 ms

additive mixture adaption
(idle speed) bank 2 -0.498ms

multiplicative mixture adaptation (part load)
bank 1 21.6 percent

multiplicative mixture adaptation (part load)
bank 2 21.7 percent


note: values lower than 0% mean mixture leaning



(PAGE 3)

144 function, oxygen sensor control, bank 1 recorded as 14th fault in fault memory.

note: check oxygen sensor before cat. converter


type of fault at the 1the occurrence mixture too lean

(OBDII code: P0172)


the fault is currently present.
detected one times
mileage 167790 km, on the 1th occurrence
engine speed 1480 rpm
engine load 16 percent
lambda control factor, bank 1 1
adaptation factor, injection bank 1 1.210

(PAGE 4)

174 fuel system diagnosis, bank 1
recorded as 2th fault in fault memory

type of fault at 1the occurrence
mixture to rich at part load

(OBDII code: P0171)

the fault is currently present
detected 1 times
mileage: 167510 km, on the 1th occurrence
deviation, adaptation value bank 1 1
intake air temp 55 Celsius
coolant temp 89 Celsius
multiplicative adaptation factor, bank 1 1.210



Have heard of several test to try, but cannot remember if someone can link to those posts or tell me, thanks.

Don't really have the money to blow on misdiagnosis so any help is appreciated.

Oh also I just got my oil changed at Firestone, and now i keep getting the check oil light, most of the time. I check it it usually is OK but sometimes low, engine compartment looks clean, so does bottom of car after a nights rest. this is really wearing me down thank you

will accept any PM's or reply, or txt's or calls at 850 776 3179, I live at NAS Oceana anyone nearby with a scanner??



Thanks for any input in advance.

 

[ard]

Alarming situation.... cannot afford diagnosis, but want a confirmed diagnosis to make sure you don't replace any part that might not be "the" answer.

Get the code read at an autoparts shop, they do it for free.

 

[navyguy22]

Alarming situation.... cannot afford diagnosis, but want a confirmed diagnosis to make sure you don't replace any part that might not be "the" answer.

Get the code read at an autoparts shop, they do it for free.

have them, and got them from the dealer, wasn't that I cant afford to fix it or scan it, just don't want to have to do it for every part I don't need, and 99 percent of your auto parts stores, have a generic code scanner, that sends out OBDII codes that are

1 inaccurate, and
2 vague at best.

 

[navyguy22]

re read

the post does have the diagnosis, from the dealer scanner, just isn't exactly clear on what the print out is telling me, they said to try a few replacements, which after a few thought from members on here I would like advise. thanks


had to post them it was edited 2 mins before your reply, I had the codes was just typing them in

 

[josiahg52]

We really need those codes to be of use to you. Otherwise we guessing at what it could be.

Right off, the same sensor that provides the oil temperature signal also is used to sense the level in the sump. This sensor may need replaced. The sump must be drained of oil to replace it. What does the coolant temperature meter indicate during normal engine operation?

Bad MAFS, fuel pump and/or regulator, throttle position sensor, Cam and/or crank position sensors all could cause issues like you describe. I am not sure about the smells you describe. Some people have difficulty shifting 1-2 and 2-3 and this causes often violent jerking.

Get the codes posted. Even the free scan you get at an auto parts store could help but I bet you have heard, a Peake scanner is best for our cars.

ON EDIT:
How many miles are on your current MAFS and O2 sensors? It may be time for replacement.

 

[navyguy22]

Here are the codes, from the BMW dealership:


They gave me a print out, so here it is:

(PAGE 1)

73 signal, mass air flow sensor, implausible recorded as 1th fault in memory.

Type of fault at 1the occurrence
the fault is currently present.

(OBDII code: p0101)

detected 1 times
mileage 167790 km, on 1th occurrence
engine speed 1440 rpm
engine load 16 percent
coolant temp 90 degrees Celsius
supply voltage -12V

(PAGE 2)

Oxygen sensor controller, bank 1
control factor 1.0

oxygen sensor controller, bank 2
control factor: 1.00

ox(or Ox, or 0X). - sensor control, bank 1: not active ''''--not sure if was ox 0x or Ox---''''
ox(or Ox, or 0X). - sensor control, bank 2: not active


additive mixture adaption
(idle speed) bank 1 -0.498 ms

additive mixture adaption
(idle speed) bank 2 -0.498ms

multiplicative mixture adaptation (part load)
bank 1 21.6 percent

multiplicative mixture adaptation (part load)
bank 2 21.7 percent


note: values lower than 0% mean mixture leaning



(PAGE 3)

144 function, oxygen sensor control, bank 1 recorded as 14th fault in fault memory.

note: check oxygen sensor before cat. converter


type of fault at the 1the occurrence mixture too lean

(OBDII code: P0172)


the fault is currently present.
detected one times
mileage 167790 km, on the 1th occurrence
engine speed 1480 rpm
engine load 16 percent
lambda control factor, bank 1 1
adaptation factor, injection bank 1 1.210

(PAGE 4)

174 fuel system diagnosis, bank 1
recorded as 2th fault in fault memory

type of fault at 1the occurrence
mixture to rich at part load

(OBDII code: P0171)

the fault is currently present
detected 1 times
mileage: 167510 km, on the 1th occurrence
deviation, adaptation value bank 1 1
intake air temp 55 Celsius
coolant temp 89 Celsius
multiplicative adaptation factor, bank 1 1.210



I put them in the original post a little bit ago this is the print out the BMW dealer gave me, car now has 110K miles on it, the smell i mean is just like that hot, air kind of like damn, somthings HOTTTT lol.


And jerking I mean, it sometimes happens and sometimes not, I shift the same way just about all the time, have tried consistant driving with different methods of shifting, even a friend drove it felt the same thing, I have learned to "manage it" by adjusting the way I drive/ shift but I can tell you its still an annyoing problem ESPECIALLY when the cars a bit cold.

the coolant temp starts cold obviously and never goes above mid range, so that why im perplexed and think its not actually the presented temp of engine.

 

[josiahg52]

If those are original MAFS or O2 sensors at 110k miles they would be very high on my list for replacement, codes notwithstanding.

The oil level/temperature sensor needs replaced or inspected for proper connection.

Is the smell hot plastic, hot metal? Does it smell like antifreeze/coolant?

I would closely inspect the intake tract, especially for a leak between the MAFS and intake manifold; any source of un-metered air entering the intake. Examples include oil separator hoses, vacuum lines.

I would check the O2 sensor fuses and also inspect their connectors underneath the car.

All of these inspections are free and take little time for you to do. A lift helps like that on NOB at the auto hobby shop where they charge a nominal fee for their use.

-Josiah

 

[navyguy22]

hot smell, really just hot air, like the whole engine bay just being hot, but i heard these cars run hot as it is.

and were can i find a oil level/temp sensor check/ replacement and what am i looking for?

and your right, I will; prob re[place the mafs regardless, but is there a way to find out if thats the cause with out actually changing them yet I would like to spend the money to fix the problem first, then get the extra stuff.

 

[josiahg52]

They do run hot but are not particularly smelly . . .

Go to realoem.com and enter your VIN. From there you can navigate to different diagrams to find parts you need. Once you get a part number you can look to any of the fine m5board.com advertisers at the top of the page, Pelican Parts, Tischer, etc. to find the part you need.

The inspections I am talking about are just to make sure that these sensors/components are firmly connected.

 

[jfoj]

First, how long have you own this car? Where did you buy the car if you recently purchased the car? Does your car have the stock intake air system or some sort of cold air intake or not OEM air filters?

Not sure I would have let Firestone change the oil in the car. Who provided the oil & filter, Firestone?? and how many quarts of oil did they put in the engine? These engines require 7 quarts of oil as I recall. I might just a 1 quart of oil if the low oil light is coming on if is not clear how much oil has been added during the oil change. I check my oil, engine cold the oil level is above the low mark, engine warm the oil level is almost to the full mark.

These cars do not run hot in my opinion, others may not agree. They have a 175F/79C thermostat. I have only had my car since mid Dec, needed a new thermostat when I purchased the car, I knew this and replaced it, I have watched the temps very closely with OBC menu on a daily basis since I changed the stat and I have never had the coolant temp go above 186F/85C this season, however, you may have slightly higher temps on VA Beach then we have had here? Oil temps never gone above 195F/91C so far via OBC. So to me the oil temps usually are about 5C above coolant temp. Again, this my experience.

Oil temps going should not go above 1/2 gauge reading in most situations. Not sure why you have been going sky high, but this is a problem!
I might start looking at things like bad connections, bad grounds, etc. As for testing, using your finger as a tool is a good idea. Finger inside the tailpipe should not bring up much black carbon, if it is wet, black and oily you have issues. Also on a clean car, you should not have much oily, suety build up or film on the rear bumper after a long drive.

As for smells, these cars do not have a full blown crank case vent system like many American cars. I have both a E39 M5 and a E46 330cic. Both cars get crankcase vent odors from time to time inside the car. I am very familiar with this smell and my nose is in tune to this smell. I have driven a number of other M5's and they have all had this smell from time to time, some worse than others. Part of the issue with the E39 may be issues with the elbow from the cabin air filter into the HVAC fan box. Many people break the latch lugs not understanding how they attach. If the latch lugs are broken, the elbows do not seal to the HVAC fan box and may allow engine compartment heat and smell to get into the car.

As for the jerky acceleration, this is a "common" problem with these M5 from what I have seen. Not sure what the overall issue is, some claim it is the driver, I fully disagree. There may be some issues with these cars that aggravate this behavior, however, I have not seen resolved this yet. I have a 3.45 rear gear in my car and I rarely use 1st gear anyway, so this resolves most of the jerky behavior from 1st to 2nd shifting.

As for your codes, I need to think these over, however, I am finding that when there are other problems with these cars, many times some of these codes can be red herrings. For example, I have not confirmed, but if you have problems with your Vanos solenoids either being clogged, broken solder joints and/or bad o-rings, I would expect that the MAF test during 3rd gear WOT may not register high enough. So in some cases, someone may fail the MAF sensors when in fact the problem may be with the Vanos??

 

[josiahg52]

EVERYONE will say that the S62 runs hot under the hood. We don't mean coolant temperature, we mean it is hot under the hood when we say 'it runs hot.' It probably has to do with a massive V8 shoved in a tiny engine compartment.

We have already determined that the oil level/temperature sensor is faulty or has a poor connection. The OP is going to check and/or replace it and should check his engine oil level to be sure.

Coolant or oil temperature should exceed the halfway point rarely under normal driving conditions except under specific track conditions where it is a possibility to creep above these 'normal' indications.

The jerkiness is caused by the driver insofar as a driver, with proper technique, can all but eliminate the jerkiness. The M5 seems to be less forgiving in this regard during the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. I think most people will agree. It is obviously the design and characteristic of the S62, the M5 and the 420G and not the driver that combine to make this 'proper' techniqie' required. So yes, you are right, it is not the 'fault' of the driver that causes the jerkiness but it is the driver who can eliminate the jerkiness. This assumes the the vehicle is running well in the first place.

I am not one to throw parts at a car but you have to start somewhere and if the OP does not know when some of these common parts were replaced last then it may be worthwhile to replace them first.

To the OP, I am assuming you have cleared the codes and they came back, right?

 

[nightkrawler]

faults for adaptation values rich and lean alone points to bad maf's, you also have a signal fault, replace the maf's.

 

[Verruckt]

faults for adaptation values rich and lean alone points to bad maf's, you also have a signal fault, replace the maf's.

This. Replace the MAFS' and clear the adaptation values.

 

[cab]

If it were me I would clear the codes and as soon as the CEL comes back on have the codes re-checked by your body. Even the cheapie OBD II code scanners are fine - you don't need a "magic" GT-1 for this. Many hardware failure will trip other codes along the way, but the first code to get tripped can be a clue as to the original problem (or problems in this case). Given your plummeting mileage number and the reference to the O2 sensors in your codes I would probably start there. The Mafs could be contributing to jerkiness or it could be the typical jerkiness these cars have (which I assure you is not driver error, but also believe not every one has...another topic all its own). The oil gauge behavior sound electrical obviously, and also makes me wonder what your alternator voltage is (just put a voltmeter on the battery terminal while the car is running...unless there is a OBC check for this too).


I am a bit concerned that you have an M5 and can't afford to get the codes read...as others said, that is an "alarming situation" with these cars!

 

[nightkrawler]

bad maf's, end of story. replace these first.

 

[feeblebob]

If it were me I would clear the codes and as soon as the CEL comes back on have the codes re-checked by your body. Even the cheapie OBD II code scanners are fine - you don't need a "magic" GT-1 for this. Many hardware failure will trip other codes along the way, but the first code to get tripped can be a clue as to the original problem (or problems in this case). Given your plummeting mileage number and the reference to the O2 sensors in your codes I would probably start there. The Mafs could be contributing to jerkiness or it could be the typical jerkiness these cars have (which I assure you is not driver error, but also believe not every one has...another topic all its own). The oil gauge behavior sound electrical obviously, and also makes me wonder what your alternator voltage is (just put a voltmeter on the battery terminal while the car is running...unless there is a OBC check for this too).


I am a bit concerned that you have an M5 and can't afford to get the codes read...as others said, that is an "alarming situation" with these cars!

The part regarding not being able to afford it, I'm suffering this month from some unexpected bills, not to say I haven't got a load of cash to throw at the car most months, but sometimes sh!t happens, it doesn't seem from reading that it's a general inability to afford to run the car

Is there not a voltage reading in the OBC? I may be remembering this wrong or it might not be making the same reading as the value you are asking for... I'm sure I used this when looking for the electrical issue that was flattening my battery (which turned out to be a dead battery, go figure...)

 

[Sailor24]

Here are the codes, from the BMW dealership:


They gave me a print out, so here it is:

(PAGE 1)

73 signal, mass air flow sensor, implausible recorded as 1th fault in memory.

Type of fault at 1the occurrence
the fault is currently present.

(OBDII code: p0101)

detected 1 times
mileage 167790 km, on 1th occurrence
engine speed 1440 rpm
engine load 16 percent
coolant temp 90 degrees Celsius
supply voltage -12V

(PAGE 2)

Oxygen sensor controller, bank 1
control factor 1.0

oxygen sensor controller, bank 2
control factor: 1.00

ox(or Ox, or 0X). - sensor control, bank 1: not active ''''--not sure if was ox 0x or Ox---''''
ox(or Ox, or 0X). - sensor control, bank 2: not active


additive mixture adaption
(idle speed) bank 1 -0.498 ms

additive mixture adaption
(idle speed) bank 2 -0.498ms

multiplicative mixture adaptation (part load)
bank 1 21.6 percent

multiplicative mixture adaptation (part load)
bank 2 21.7 percent


note: values lower than 0% mean mixture leaning

Was the car not running when this test was done? There are some odd things if it was running. The 89c engine temp inactive o2s.
I suspect the reason for your hot smell is the car is running super lean. Try unplugging your mafs. The car should run well, If it does not then you may have a none functioning O2. You will get codes from it but you won't burn your cats up and fry your engine. Either that or park it till you get new mafs. After the mafs worry about the O2s it could be they are just out of range.

 

[navyguy22]

guess i should just take it to the dealer, have a full on diagnosis, check everything, they said it would cost almost 350 for a full on tests

 

[mattmartindrift]

yeah, totally ignore the good advice given above.

the dealer will replace anything throwing a code, even if it's unecessary.

here, I'll tell you what they say you'll need replaced:

MAFS (2x) - $500/per at the dealer
O2 sensors (4x) $200/per at the dealer
Oil temp/level sensor
thermostat

 

[wilhit10]

I have an extra mafs you can swap at my house. I live in Poquoson, so its not far from you house. Your car is probably fixed by now.

Sorry,
Adam