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Can't decide between 3.8 E34 and E39

4K views 39 replies 13 participants last post by  Alan Archer 
#1 ·
Hi there,

I have narrowed down my choices to two cars , a 3.8 Liter(Euro Spec imported from Japan) and very rare black/black E34 and and a low milage also black/black E39 with almost every option.

Now I have searched though all the comparison threads, but I am more confused as ever :(. And the problem is both cars are not local so I don't get a chance to drive them though I once did test drive the E39, but not as hard as I wanted to since the seller was seating right beside me.

Now I understand the E39 has more torqy engine but is more luxury and comfort orientent than the E34, but a lot of people are saying that the 3.8 E34 is not too far behind? How true is this? Hndling is supposed to be more crisp and less body roll as well in the E34, fact or fiction?

I do prefer less luxury and more pure driving fun, plus I fell in love with the E34 after watching Ronin but am tempted by the V8 and the great look of the E39 as well.

So I know that this might have been discussed in the past but I need some fresh opinions especially in relation to the 3.8 ( hopefully first hand experiences).

Cheers,
Rob
 
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#11 ·
Hey rstringer

Just remember that the majority of 3.8s are this side of the pond. I notice your posts are at 1 and 4 o'clock in the morning and as you know we don't get back from the pub until 6 am? :haha:

With regards driving in traffic and having to rev to get the baby going ........ it's not that bad, they do develop 75% of peak torque (221.25lbft) at 2000 rpm. Never found it a problem?
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
There is no discussion, so probably few responses.

If you want a cruiser that is fast at 8/10th, get the e39.

If you want something that is handbuilt, very uncommon, and a pure drivers car, get the e39. Sabine still says the e34 is the best drivers M5, and thats coming from someone who has a company e60 M5 and gets free tires every 10 and brakes every 20 laps!

Running costs are high on both, although finding someone to do it might be easier for the e39. At equal prices I'd still want an e34 though!
 
#4 ·
I've driven both...(actually I have both) and honestly if you want a daily driver definitely you need to get the E39. but if its for pure driving enjoyment then E34. you have to think about running costs on both to be about the same E39 with more stuff to replace like MAF and CPS etc while E34 need valve clearance and such especially S38B38 parts harder to source.
fuel consumption are about the same even though my E39 gets better mileage for some reason??

E39 will get you more envious looks from others while the E34 will only get real BMW fanatic attention while others will think you drive an old and loud crappy BMW.
 
#5 ·
fuel consumption are about the same even though my E39 gets better mileage for some reason??
.
i tend to get better milage with the e34, at around 16, where my e39 gets around 13mpg. Not a reason to make a decision like this though! (i already answered in the e39 section, same general feeling. Daily driver, e39, for fun, e34, so get both.
 
#6 ·
Thanks everyone for your input so far. I have to say that I am generally a very agressive driver but not a really fast one. I like to shuffle in a very dense traffic so I need accleration and good handling. So with all of your comments in mind is it fair to assume that the E34 will give me more agility and better handling and suite my agressive local driving better than the E39?

BTW Also I do love a stiffer ride and the simplistic look and feel of the E34 so looks don't play a role for me.

Cheers,
Rob
 
#7 ·
keep in mind that the S38 engines need to be revved high for anything to happen...below 3k rpm its pretty much like driving a 525 (in my opinion) so if you're always in traffic without the room to floor it you might not like the S38...and also if a stiff ride is what you like than I think with the E39 you can do much more modding like 20's and more suspension options
 
#8 ·
keep in mind that the S38 engines need to be revved high for anything to happen...below 3k rpm its pretty much like driving a 525 (in my opinion) so if you're always in traffic without the room to floor it you might not like the S38...and also if a stiff ride is what you like than I think with the E39 you can do much more modding like 20's and more suspension options
Hm interesting I would have an issue with the S38 if that is the case. And how about the handling? which car has less body roll and which corners better?

Cheers,
Rob
 
#10 · (Edited)
The E39 is actually quite softly sprung & damped.
Its quite a balanced package but has alot of rubber isolators & bushes
in the suspension.
Plus point = refined & low NVH.
Minus point = wear & general vagueness for the enthusiast, hence
the proliferation of Eurathane bush kits for almost everywhere on E39.

The other factor is traction aids.
The firmer you make a cars ride with stiffer roll rates etc, the harder it
becomes for the 2 stage traction aid calibration to reign the car in.

There is little doubt that changing a cars handling characteristics with
stiffer dampers & springs, bushes, rollbars, brakes & bigger wheels moves the car
outside the original design envelope for the the traction control catchnet.

One would assume that owners doing these mods realise that the traction
control system is profiled for a std vehicle.
Ie, its calibrated reactive system with adaptation values for the std car.
It does not pre-empt.

I prefer the E34.
Its raw.
Its handbuilt ( unfortunately, that also appears to be the case where
subsequent owners have been having a little play !)
It requires some thought to drive it well in wet conditions.

But...an E39 will disapear from view as you fight to keep an E34 sticky side
down under this scenario.
Thats progress I guess.

In the dry, handling wise, the cars are very very close to each other.
Find a good E34//M5 & you won't be disapointed.

Farrell
 
#9 ·
Think of the E34 as a swiss watch and the E39 as the latest gadgetron G-shock laser beam ultratastic watsit. Both are exceptional watches, but the key difference is that the E34 is very much an anologue device whereas the E39 is somewhat more binary.
 
#12 ·
Points have been made.

Only thing I'd like to add is that I foresee a value-switch between E39 and E34 in the coming 3-5 years.
 
#13 ·
I would like to add the point about driving an exclusive 'Q' car. You are always going to see E39's around M5 versions or not, but how many E34's do you see being driven....not many. Go with your heart not your mind, buy a good E34 M5.
 
#14 ·
You may find the E34 a little more frustrating to drive than an E39 if you want to carve in and out of traffic - you just cant match the punch of the V8.
If you want to drive on a twisting empty road (more rewarding and considerably safer) go for the E34 and let it rev, the sound is intoxicating.
 
#17 ·
Had never been in an E39 M5 until late last year when Darren (Farrell)
picked me up in one.

I must say that after a fairly short, fairly steady blast back to the den
not one aspect of the car blew me away after mine 9 year tenure with an E34.
Sure, as a driver who's driven his fair share of machinery I could instantly feel
the superior bottom end of the V8...and how it translates into an additional
second or more knocked from the 0-100mph time..
But the whole feel of the car was....soft.

Soft seats,
soft ride,
soft soundtrack,
soft clutch (!)

I would equate it an excellent vehicle in which to speed unoticed by your
fellow passengers.

An E39 is a fantastic car,
but the E34 is a brilliant one.

Job done.
 
#18 ·
Thank you everyone for your insights. Now I have one final question and since I am really a rookie when it comes to the tech stuff, I just know that I love driving and what makes me feel good in a car without being able to aticulate it very clearly in technical terms. So here is my overall understanding and the final questions that stems from it:

E39 has massive low end torque unlike the E34 which has to be reved high. Now if both cars have the same throttle response ,meaning (again forgive me if I am not getting the terms correctly) that both can rev to a certain RPM at the same rate then no doubt the E39 will feel punchier and will make me happier :1:. If however the E34 revs higher quicker than the E39 then it could potentialy get to the same torque level just as quick, again that is assuming that the E39 revs up slower. If these assumptions are correct then off the line the 3.8 E34 could be very competitive and punchy as well. Is this correct? or am I completely off here in my assumptions and/or conclusions?

I apologize again if I sound repetitive but the lack of access to this cars requires me to gain as much understanding as I can before pulling the trigger on either of them.

Cheers,
Rob
 
#19 ·
Put in simple terms an E39 has an additional 60 hp,
and over 70lb/ft more of torque.
It would leave an E34 from the lights, not in an "oh my God" fashion
but certainly by a length enough to declare victory by around 90mph...

But hey, the bold performance figures on paper will tell you that.
Feel is something else.

I know what you are trying to say regarding the car capturing its torque
band quicker due to snappier reving, but 5.0 litres vs less that 4.0 is only
going to go one way..especially when weight wise there is maybe only
200 pounds in it.
(Alan is about to get kicked for approximating kerb weights:hihi:

Hmm, this is a tough choice to make....

Revvy old skool classic straight six that shares a bloodline with the M1,
and E30 M3.....

or TV, Sat-Nav & fancy Rpm indicator.....and bags of torque.

Choices choices !
 
#20 ·
:grrrr: Arg , why couldn't BMW continue in the spirit of the E34 and just make a stronger engine without all that fancy shmancy E39 stuff. don't they know what audience they are targeting. All they had to do is stick the V8 into an improved (but not softened E34 chassis, maybe add some smoother lines to indicate some evolution) and we would have the perfect M5. Global economy makes BMW sell out it seems to appease everyone and along the way they forget why people started loving the M cars to begin with. Well I will go see the E34 this weekend and sure hope that it is a clean car , if so it surely will be mine.

Cheers,
Rob
 
#22 ·
It's a theory / rumour that those young bucks that
worked on the E30 & E34's grew older & middle aged
by the time the E36 / E39 came along...hence the priorities changed...

But the truth is the market is constantly evolving,
demands change & car makers keep up.

It's only when we see young & old that we spot the changes
and the market shift.

The E36 got a fairly frosty reception when the M3 was released....

But now everyone wants (or has) one as a second track car :hihi:

How times change !
 
#24 ·
It's a theory / rumour that those young bucks that
worked on the E30 & E34's grew older & middle aged
by the time the E36 / E39 came along...hence the priorities changed...
I am not sure I believe that, these m -car projects must have been initiated and lead by some senior technical people at BMW.

Times do change and the true german values just got diluted with being fiscally responsible. Sigh. :sad1:
 
#26 ·
Agree with Archer here.

Also, the demand for cars with two souls has rapidly increased over the past 10-15 years. Just look at the amount of sportscars with 'fun' buttons or in AMG / M5 E39 style cars with so much torque that they make good daily drivers too.

For me, the big six cylinder does it. I like the V10 in the new M5 as it shows similar power band ,and here here, its got a 'power' button.


Back in the day, the cars like the E30 or E34 were probably better daily drivers compared to our stds now. Look at how well a new mondeo or 3-series handles out of the box, and compare that to a Ford Taunus or Opel Ascona from the time the E30 was introduced.

Sometimes I get the feeling that time doesn't catch up on a car, but that time catches up on the motorists frame of reference. The past 10 years saw a major change in the history of automobiles. I can't recall another era than the 90's into 2000 where so many improvements were applied in cars.

Just pick your place on the ladder..A 1957 Ferrari TR isn't as fast a a Honda Civic these days!
 
#34 ·
I would say bottom line is this...if this is your first BMW let alone M5 then get the E39 or even E60 if your budget allows....the E34 is something for BMW fans that appreciate the M line and dont mind the sacrifice in performance compared to the newer models....especially when you tell people how much you've spent buying that E34 you will only get bewildered looks as in WHY?????? that car is a piece of S**T old BMW.... believe me NO ONE but BMW guys will ever understand the purchase of a E34...NO ONE...if this is your first BMW start with something more modern until you're ready for something classic that you will appreciate..
 
#36 ·
I would say bottom line is this...if this is your first BMW let alone M5 then get the E39 or even E60 if your budget allows....the E34 is something for BMW fans that appreciate the M line and dont mind the sacrifice in performance compared to the newer models....especially when you tell people how much you've spent buying that E34 you will only get bewildered looks as in WHY?????? that car is a piece of S**T old BMW.... believe me NO ONE but BMW guys will ever understand the purchase of a E34...NO ONE...if this is your first BMW start with something more modern until you're ready for something classic that you will appreciate..
Agree. Especialy after reading what kind of driving you'll be using it for, the e39 is a better bet.
 
#35 ·
All,

I did test drive a 3.6 yesterday and I must say I was not too impressed. By all fairness I have to say that the car was not very clean ( high miles etc), and maybe a clean 3.8 will be a completely different animal.

The suspension was pretty tight but the steering was not very accurate or crisp.

Acceleration was disappoinint it didn't rev up quickly and I felt the power surge mid to high 4K rpm.

In general the car felt very heavy and not as agile as I thought.

Again it might be that particlar car, I think I need to test drive couple more to be able to tell for sure, but this is my first impression so far.

Rob
 
#39 ·
All,

I think I need to test drive couple more to be able to tell for sure, but this is my first impression so far.

Rob
100%

If power is all you're after then the e39 is the kiddy. I find the handling is better on my e34. I also find leaving the traction on in the rain in my e39 is a must. The two are great and the e39 is a daily driver and the e34 comes out on occasion and smiles come free.

Both cars have Bridgestone SO2's all round so this helps with comparisons and mannerisms.

The sound of the screaming six is highly addictive:flag::flag: however a SS X pipe helps the e39 in the aural dept:wroom::wroom:

As you said you need to test drive a couple more to be sure. You also need to befriend a couple of m5 owners to truly experience the want, feel and expense of these cars.

The 3.8 is another step forward to the 3.6 but opinions vary as some say the 3.6 is a more reliable engine,,,, good maintenance should negate worry but no matter what you buy you will have BILLS.

1 thing for sure old bean, ///M power rooooooooooooooools:M5launch::M5launch:
 
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