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Discussion Starter #1
I've read a lot of posts on people 'pulling car lengths' and and ECU's adding 30 RWHP to cars, exhausts adding 20 Hp, and charcoal filter removal adding 10 HP. Lot's of videos of our car kicking other car's butt's, then the other car kicks our butts.

What I, and I think most of the members of this board would like to find out is what modifications give real performance gains, and what are the extent of those gains? For maybe obvious reasons, some tuners don't want to post actual apples-to-apples comparisons, but that's the best way to do business in the long run.

Let's get some real data on same car, same day, same dyno with graphs:

1. charcoal filters in and filters off.
2. Stock ECU vs Aftermarket ECU.
3. Stock Exhaust vs Aftermarket

This isn't rocket science. And it would be nice if we could get testing with one mod at a time, rather than throwing everying on the car and testing it with Filter, ECU, and exhaust mods. If we could get real data, then a lot of people would probably pony up some bucks for mods, and some tuners would go back to the drawing board. Both events would be a positive for M5 owners and the quality tuners.
 

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i agree.... i can tell your right now the AA software is in NO way producing anywhere near the gains they claim... it's simply impossible from an engineering standpoint. furthmore, these claims coming from the same people that made absolutely ridiculous claims re: their E39 M5 intake/ecu combo and every other product they make.... it's just a shame because the fact of the matter is most people on this forum are very uninformed and think a dyno is a benchmark of measurment. it's not... that would be the farthest thing from the truth. steve dinan wrote an article about how dyno's are absolute crap because with fan placement he could vary the HP rating of a vehicle by 30-50 hp. and it's true. and tuners like AA constantly making BS claims make every other tuner look bad or obsolete when in fact they are just being honest.... i'd like AA to offer someone opposite their coast and in the midwest a "trial" software and that person selected for trial would pay for a dyno from a local tuner to get an UNBIASED result... i don't know what they have to worry about.. if the software was as great as they claimed surely the person would buy it. i know i would....
 

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dyno tested my car the other day.

500HP mode car came back at 430.23 HP at rear wheels translated with the conversion to 502 HP

400HP mode car has 339HP at rear wheels which was 412HP converted to motor HP

this showed that the car is spot on from the BMW claims.

i now have the Eisenmann Race system installed. and i plan on haveing the dyno ran again, just to see the claims made by them on the car.

really does not matter much to me, the car now sounds so alive with this system.
 

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Here is the thing about AA. I had them chip my M3 and put their exhaust on as well and I have been very happy with the result. I am sure you can drop a PM to Omar and find out what their procedure was when they ran their dyno numbers. I would find out what their dyno procedure was.

Since they can hot program the chip while it is in the car, they could easily leave the car in the dyno without molesting the setup and see exactly what the net difference between their program and the stock program is.

I can tell you that they seem to be an honest shop and there is definitely a difference in what they did for the M3.

First of all, I don't believe that the AA reprogramming is a software they can/could/ or even would share. It is my understanding that they are actually optimizing / altering the factory programming (improving fuel mix and throttle response per RPM range).

Could they be full of it? Of course, but I would rather take the opinions and statements of current M5 owners of broken in vehicles (meaning 5,000+ miles to where the engine has loosened up), and their honest perspectives of the alteration and the resulting difference.

I don't remember where it was posted but there was a dyno chart on here which documented the stock / filter off / chipped changes at AA and I would bet that they did one after another with the car still in the dyno. But again, send them a message and see what the response is.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
kees said:
Do you have any dynosheets to back that up?
I'll dyno my car in a week or so. Charcoal filters removed - sorry, I'm not putting them back for a dyno run. I don't think my straight pipes replacing the resonator will give any HP gain, so my car should be basically stock with the filters removed.

I'll post all the specs and sheets when I do the runs. I will be running 94 octane gas, probably in 4th gear so the results will be just a little low, but hopefully good for comparison purposes.
 

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Resurrecting this thread. In particular, for CF removal. I've searched and found anywhere from 5 to 20 hp (sometimes not even specified if crank or rwhp) increase after removal. While I realize variability will exist due to a number of factors, there must be some consistent numbers out there somewhere. Anyone have/know what the numbers are for this mod?
 

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Maybe do some 100 km/h (62,5 mph) in 3rd gear to 200 km/h (125 mph) times in BOTH directions and take the averagetime of that. Then post the temperature reading also.

If many will do this with different mods on one flat road we would have soem unscientific data right there.
 

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There's wind resistance too Gustav, which plays a huge role.
 

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I think that people need to understand that BMW did almost all they could to get everything they could out of this engine. Sure they left some on the table, but remapping the ECU is not going to give you 30 hp @ the wheel (probably not even the crank). I agree with others that it is highly unlikely for an exhaust to increase hp by more the 15. Lets be realistic, I'd be happy with like 5 or so. Anyway if your after performance, it makes no sense to change an exhaust and not to get a new differential. They are relatively the same price (of course minus labor), but the gains are on different levels.
 

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bodaddy said:
I think that people need to understand that BMW did almost all they could to get everything they could out of this engine. Sure they left some on the table, but remapping the ECU is not going to give you 30 hp @ the wheel (probably not even the crank). I agree with others that it is highly unlikely for an exhaust to increase hp by more the 15. Lets be realistic, I'd be happy with like 5 or so. Anyway if your after performance, it makes no sense to change an exhaust and not to get a new differential. They are relatively the same price (of course minus labor), but the gains are on different levels.
No disagreement there. But that's my point. I wish someone could come up with some reproducable numbers on headers, exhaust, remaps, CF filter removal, etc. that we can hang our hat on.
 

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Has anybody heard (RELIABLY?) of what BMW's own plans are for this engine as I have seen several references to a "forthcoming" 5.5l version of the V10?
The new small Rolls Royce is also said to have a big capacity version of this engine but tuned for torque rather than top end power. G-Power and Nowack both offer 5.5l options but at silly money. Done by the factory it should cost no more than the current model.
 

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At least intuitively you can look at what the stock headers look like (pinched) and compare to the SS headers to give cred to the posted gains.
 

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Ah but the pinched stock headers are like that for a reason. This V10 needs a certain level of back pressure. Opening it up will only help at higher rpm, but low end torque will suffer.

Frank.
 

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M-bitious said:
Ah but the pinched stock headers are like that for a reason. This V10 needs a certain level of back pressure. Opening it up will only help at higher rpm, but low end torque will suffer.

Frank.
Ah, that hadn't occured to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
M-bitious said:
Ah but the pinched stock headers are like that for a reason. This V10 needs a certain level of back pressure. Opening it up will only help at higher rpm, but low end torque will suffer.

Frank.
No way they designed those 'kinks' into the headers for airflow. It is impossible to accurately model airflow inside irregular geometries like those in the M5 headers.

The best explanation I've heard for the kinks is they are necessary to get the pipes into the catalytic converter. With aftermarket headers/converters, you don't have that restriction, and the flow can be smoothed out considerably
 
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