1. Do not buy the car sight unseen.

2. Drive multiple Ms so that when YOU drive it you can evaluate it.

3. Pull the BMW service history. Decode the service record entries. Find out where it was serviced.

4. Contact the servicing dealers. See what you can find out. Maybe ask for the service invoices. Offer to pay for their time. Tell them it is OK to black out the personal info.

5. Have a local member do a casual 'drive by'... not a PPI, they are (likely) not qualified nor likely unwilling to take on this liability.

6. If they are OK, fly out, bring it to a mechanic. Have a 'real' PPI done by a QUALIFIED M5 Mechanic.

6. Assume the dealer is lying to you. The overwhelming odds are that he IS. Or he is leaving out stuff that might be important.

7. Drive it home- or drive it to the shipper and fly home. Take 50 pictures of the car with the shipper's agent in a few frames when you drop the car off... one never knows..

A

 

Maybe a board member here can take a look at it for you. A same day round trip flight would be worthwhile to actually see the car in person and test drive it. Personally I would not spend that kind of money without ever seeing or driving the car. The cost of a flight is pretty small in respect to the price of this car.

3 owners would make me wonder as well. What is the model year, mileage, service history, asking price and such???

 

ard is right, and this is the most conservative, fail-proof way to do it.

It kind of depends on the level of risk you are willing to take.

I bought mine sight-unseen from out of state and I just accepted the level of risk that came with it.
The reason I did it this way was:
1) It was a one-owner car and I managed to speak with the original owner (and he traded the car in on a new M6).
2) It was sold through a BMW dealer with a warranty (not CPO but a limited warranty)
3) The service history was relatively complete and had all the right checkpoints (1200 mile service done right at 1200 miles, CPS replaced, clutch done, new battery etc.). The car was obviously owned by an M-thusiast with enough money to get things done right.

Of all things ard said, my experience showed me one thing is almost guaranteed to be true:
Don't trust the dealer completely, there are things he is not telling you that you might find important, whether or not it's important to the seller. They are out to sell a car, and it's one of several, so they are not likely to obsess over every detail like the future owner. There will probably be some pieces missing or broken that they are not accounting for (although the major parts of the car should be fine). These will hopefully end up being minor but will in faxct cost you money to fix most likely as they would probably not be warranty items.

It is up to you to determine if you roll the dice and not do the checklist of things as mentioned. Or determine which of those things you can live without.
It is definitely a good idea to pester as many dealers as you can where the car was serviced and beg/negotiate with $$ for the service history. This will give you as good of idea as any how well the car was really cared for. I was told that other dealers will not give up info because of "privacy issues" but as mentioned see if they will just black out the previous owner info and fax you something -- anything. People on this board can decode the service codes (yes this place rules).

Do not trust Carfax for this or anything. Carfax can only report what was reported to the places it checks. It is good for finding out the places the car has been and changed hands but should mainly be used as a starting point for your research of calling various placs you might see on the Carfax. Do not assume that a clean carfax means it has not been in an accident.
My last car was rear-ended to the tune of more than $1500 and I had it fixed at the dealer's body shop but it never made it to Carfax (the police never got involved and it was totally handled by the other guy's insurance).

Good luck! I am thrilled with my decision though I know I'm lucky to have found one in the condition I did.

 

I just went through purchasing a car out of state, but I drove up to see it. I would definately recommend NOT buying it sight unseen. Just to add to what everyone is saying, if you have the VIN, go to bimmerfest.com. Post a request for service history in the "Ask a dealer" forum and a dealer will provide the service history. Remember, this only services performed by a bmw dealer will be displayed. Good luck!

 

One more for the 'don't buy the car unseen'

Hi M -

Is there something about this particular car that you think makes it worth buying sight unseen? There are too many stories on this board that start like 'I just bought this car and I'm experiencing the following (insert bad situation here)'.

There are too many of these cars out there for sale right now not to do your homework. Don't worry about missing out on a good deal or a specific car. I guarantee you another one is waiting right around the corner. As others have stated, it's worthwhile driving a few so you can get a feel for the differences from one car to the next. I recently bought mine after spending some time looking for the right one. I didn't look at as many as others have, but when I found the right one I knew it. My gut told me as much as my head. Through the process I received some really good advice from this board, and even had a board member meet me to check out one of the cars. Can't beat that kind of help.

Anyway, after a couple months of ownership I'm very happy to report that I don't have any of the issues that seem to plague many other owners on this board (knocking on wood right now). I attribute this to the fact that I knew what many of these issues were beforehand, and I was able to inspect and drive this car a couple times to make sure there were no issues I wasn't ready to deal with. I couldn'y be happier with the car unless it happened to have come with a super-model in the trunk (it didn't, I checked).

Also, while I'm sure there are many honest dealers out there, I would follow Ard's advice of assuming they are lying, or at the very best, not telling the whole truth. They simply don't have the same stakes tied to the sale of this car as you do.

Best of luck to you on your search and purchase. You have taken a great first step by coming to this board. Now you need to take some of the good advice others have passed along to heart and find the car that is right for you. It would be a shame to sour your experiences with such a fine car by ending up with a lemon.

-c

 

Thanks for the great info guys. I've driven a lot of M5's to know what a strong one should feel like. Preferably I would love a CA car, but the color combo I want, is just rare to find, and when I do find it in CA, its too new and too expensive.

 

It definitely is a matter of how much risk you want to assume. The presence of remaining factory warranty also makes a difference to me. I purchased a 996 C4 Cab sight unseen from a private party last year. As soon as I got the car here, I had a P car independent mechanic give it the once-over and had the couple of small things addressed. Still had 6 months of factory warranty on it which I used to get them taken care of. Since then, I have had a wonderful ownership experience so far. Except for the one repair the cost a lot of money was done after the warranty expired -- the convertible top mechanism had a microswitch fail which killed the top mechanism dead in its tracks. The part was $200 but the labor to diagnose the fault was $800! Ouch. Such is the price of automotive bliss, I guess.

But I do agree that it would be ideal to get a formal PPI done prior to closing the deal on an older car without warranty. I did that when I was considering a 1995 993 before purchasing the 996 C4 Cab and backed off that deal (although it was a screamer of a deal) when I found out that one of the cylinders wasn't holding compression up to snuff with the rest.

Best wishes,
David

 

Thanks for the great info guys. I've driven a lot of M5's to know what a strong one should feel like. Preferably I would love a CA car, but the color combo I want, is just rare to find, and when I do find it in CA, its too new and too expensive.

For the most part, don't trust any out of state dealer representation imo. Last August I flew up to NY with my son who was going to get an E36 M3. The car was represented as "almost perfect", "enthusiast's dream", "no rust, dings, scratches or marks ANYWHERE" (their caps), "fully checked out by our BMW shop and ready to go; they were amazed at its condition, the best they've ever seen".

It was a one owner car with all service records. The pictures looked great. I had the salesman walk out to the car and tell me all about what he saw and answer my questions over the phone.

We flew up there, and as I walked out to the car, my gut immediately went on high alert. The front end had been sprayed to cover up all the rock chips without even preparing it...just paint sprayed over a ton of chips. There were scratches and marks all over the damn car. There was rust on the hood back edge and the A-pillar (bubbling under the paint). The hood and front fenders had been repainted very poorly. The LR door had been fixed with body filler very poorly. We drove it, and it had a bad throwout bearing (it was WAILING on each upshift) that anybody could have heard. The steering would not recenter itself -- either a frozen tie rod end or the steering rack itself was toast. The RF rotor was shot, deeply grooved and worn while the LF was brand new. I could go on as this is just the beginning of the list of crap with this car.

We got a room and flew back the next day after a very unfortunate scene (I kept my cool the whole time but the sales manager freaked out, yelling at us, etc., out in front of the dealership) at that dealer. He told me I knew nothing about "cars in this market", etc. I guess my 34 year background in BMWs amounted to nothing, LOL. It was a great lesson for my son, since he picked up on the sales manager's dead give-away body language right away (i.e. he clearly knew he was lying to us the whole time) in addition to learning how to really evaluate a car and walk straight away from any deal no matter what you have committed to it.

I contacted the owner of the multi-dealership entity, related the entire story by letter, and simply showed him how the ad clearly was fraudulent in addition to what was told to me over the phone. He paid for most of our costs of the trip as opposed to going to court. By the way, this was from a dealer who had a 100% Ebay rating with over 300 cars sold on Ebay...go figure.

So, even being as careful as I could be over the phone and with the background I have, etc., I still got taken enough to go see this car. If I had bought it sight unseen...yikes.

Good luck,
Chuck

 

Thanks for the great info guys. I've driven a lot of M5's to know what a strong one should feel like. Preferably I would love a CA car, but the color combo I want, is just rare to find, and when I do find it in CA, its too new and too expensive.

>>>

It also will have no rust/etc. Plus...isn't there some kinda red-tape afa emissions when you "imports" a car into CA?

 

I've purchased two cars in two weeks and both were sight unseen. I of course read the ad, called the seller, used deductive reasoning to see if they seem to be telling the truth, ask for service history, etc. I also arranged both my purchases in which I made final payment once I arrived, test drove the car, etc. and felt the vehicle was worth buying.

Any car you buy will need some things either immediately or in the near future. Always allow an expense budget of $2K to $3K for anything that your local mechnic may feel is needed.

On both my cars I came out well ahead by buying out of state and through auction. Even with the small repairs I'm undergoing right now on both cars to get them to near perfection.

 

I bought all three of my BMW's from out of state. My 1998 528i from Texas, My 2000 540i from Atlanta, and my 2001 M5 from San Francisco.

Ask them to eMail you lots of photos. Do your carfax report and ask for service history.

Once you determine you want to buy the car, make a deposit to prove good faith. The deposit needs to be written as fully refundable if the sale didnt go through, and make sure you have this one very important info.

Ensure you have an escape clause in writing on your sales contract.

Such as: "Final sale of vehicle is pending buyer's approval of his own personal inspection of the vehicle." So if you dont approve of your own personal inspection of the vehicle (like you discovered a leaking differential or something) that enables you to legally back out of the deal.

As suggested, if you have a relative close to where the car is, ask them to test drive the car for you.

Or, airplane ticket is a worthy investment if you want to fly there first to personally see the car before making a final decision.

Dan

 

I've purchased two cars in two weeks and both were sight unseen. I of course read the ad, called the seller, used deductive reasoning to see if they seem to be telling the truth, ask for service history, etc. I also arranged both my purchases in which I made final payment once I arrived, test drove the car, etc. and felt the vehicle was worth buying.

I think Rated is considering buying the car completely without seeing it in person. Putting a refundable deposit on a car after due diligence and before physically seeing the car makes sense if the car is some distance away. Then travel to the car and buy or not. That is a substantially different situation than buying the car and having it shipped before you ever see or drive it (and have the PPI done). I believe the latter is what Rated is considering. If so, I think we all agree that is a risky proposition. CSBM5's story above is very interesting and, unfortunately, probably not all that unusual.

 

I highly respect CSBM5's position now that I read his whole comment and he's right about misrepresentation. That's why with each car I did buy, I paid no monies until I did final inspection of the car myself. I misunderstood the original post here that it would be site unseen until the day it arrived after being shipped on transport or whatever. In that case I say wait and keep looking until you can physically see the car yourself, or a real good friend I suppose whom you trust.

 

I have bought quite a few of my cars like this.
A 1993 NSX, Mustang Cobra, and a Jeep SRT8.
All were really low mile cars, which is why I felt ok buying them without seeing them in person.
I have always had the cars checked out by someone other than the dealer, and pulled all the service history I could. I can say I have never had a problem, but I can see how buying one like that could be a problem.

 

One advice. Beware of the taxes. If you are buying the car from a dealer, they usually must charge you local state taxes. However, your own state may also charge you taxes when you have to register the car. This varies from state to state, of course, but I suggest you find out from your state DMV.

 

One advice. Beware of the taxes. If you are buying the car from a dealer, they usually must charge you local state taxes. However, your own state may also charge you taxes when you have to register the car. This varies from state to state, of course, but I suggest you find out from your state DMV.

This is incorrect. I work for a Honda dealership. You do not have to pay any state sales tax except in the state you are going to register it in. You merely prove residency in your home/registration state by using utility bills, driver's license, and any other proof they may require.

I have sold several cars, new and used, to out-of-state customers. I don't lie to any of them, I send detailed pictures if requested. When shipping sightunseen, I take many pictures of it as it leaves my care so the customer knows the condition of it when it left my hands!

 

I am currently in the process of buying a car, sight unseen (I'm currently in Afghanistan), from a state 500mi away from my home. I located the car, a 1998 Cosmos black M3 on M3forum.com--it is a private seller. I feel good that the seller is being completely truthful. I also am using an escrow service (Buyerguardian.com) to handle payment, PPI, and shipping. It costs a little more, but the peace of mind is worth it.

 

Where's the car? If it's anywhere around here or in NY I'd be happy to check it out as well.

 

Boy, I looked at numerous M5s and M3s over the years and consistently found that Photos Lie. Many of the cars looked like 10's in photos but were not.

I agree that you or somebody you trust must see the car in person. Do not enter into any deal unless you can get a 100% refund if it does not pass your or your agents inspection.

BTW, I bought out of state with no deposit as the seller was so sure he represented the car correctly. Even though he was correct, I still had a round trip air ticket that I did not need to use. You need to be prepared to walk away an not get caught up in the moment and make a bad decision.

 

I still had a round trip air ticket that I did not need to use. You need to be prepared to walk away an not get caught up in the moment and make a bad decision.

Wise advice...

 

+1 on at least seeing the car yourself before finalizing everything. The cost of a round trip airfare is well worth the extra peace of mind, even if a PPI is done, etc.

I would also do some research on the selling dealership, check BBB, look at their other inventory, etc. Good luck.

 

Gotta ask, what is a PPI? I imagine its an inspection by an authorized BMW shop.
What is the protocol for having one done when you are considering buying a car? What, exactly, do you have done/checked at the shop and what are typical costs?
If there is a good post already on this subject, please advise.
Thanks,
Mike

 

Gotta ask, what is a PPI?

Pre Purchase Inspection

 

I bought my car out of state, found it on autotrader and then had the luxury of continuing a dialogue with the (private) owner for several months.. by the time I went down to TX to have it PPI'd, I was 99% certain that it would check out and that I'd be buying it. Which I did, obviously. My car was with its third owner as well, 2nd owner had the car for a month because.. well, he deceased.

- T

 

a PPI is like 2 hrs labor give or take.. so costs around two hours labor; depending on rate that should be about 200 bucks. they have a list of things that they go over.. you just ask for a PPI and then sit back and wait for the results.

 

you just ask for a PPI and then sit back and wait for the results.

This is REALLY BAD advice.

There is no such thing as a "BMW PPI"... 'they' don't have a 'lsit' of things they inspect- or more accurately, there is no 'universally agreed upon PPI checklist'.

To repeat: DO NOT JUST CALL AND SAY "I WANT A PPI".

Do spend a minute here an search for "CPO Checklist" and "PPI". I recommend doing a complete CPO inspection, add a DME dump.

A

 

Pretty much just like everyone has said, make sure you see the car and inspect it before you buy it. I live in Chicago but I've bought cars from Indiana, Florida and Washington. Every time I have gone out there in person to check out the car. Go out there and look at the car but be prepared to walk away, don't force the sale.

 

PPI Out of State

Anything tricky in having out of state owner deliver car to his local dealer who I call and arrange / pay for PPI?
Thanks,
Mike

 

CPO and DME?

What does CPO and DME stand for?
Thanks.

 

What does CPO and DME stand for?
Thanks.

CPO is Certified Pre-Owned, DME = Digital Motor Electronics, meaning the engine computer.

Here is a link to the BMW CPO checklist which is a good place for a dealer to start on a PPI while then adding model-specific issues to check for.

 

Jerry,

I concur that a PPI 'list' is more than likely something that is more or less arbitrary and follows in close circles with a CPO checklist. I no longer visit the dealer where my car was PPI'd, though I may have the paperwork from that inspection. All I remember at this point is that I was charged about two hours labor. As for a list, I'd have to ask the dealer to run me one. But I'll check my paperwork.

- Tim