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Discussion Starter #101 (Edited)
The Domino Effect

In the 2.5 years I owned the 530i I never had a problem with the power steering.

Fluid is Pentosin 11S and I always filled so it just covers the stainless steel screen in the reservoir (too much ?)

Since the M60B40 swap I've blown the front seal on 2 used hydraulic pumps (B40 and B30 pumps on the old engines) in 1,500 kms , the high pressure line has leaked and the problem is finally solved with a new hydraulic pump.

We have triple checked the hose routes and everything is going where it should (always a risk when the engines been removed).

This morning the power steering reservoir overflowed.

Next steps are putting less fluid in the reservoir (half) and maybe putting a second cooler in series on the lower pressure line after the power steering cooling coil

I can only think that with the M60B30 and lots of slow driving (Jakarta holds the world record for stop start driving) and 45 to 50 deg C temps off the road surface that the system was right on the limit. Now with the M60B40 the slightly extra generated heat has reached and passed the system limit.

Any thoughts ?
 

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In every BMW system, there's on hose with an inexplicable splice in it. This splice is a restrictor. Usually, this is on the feed side of the pump, not the output side. Can you see a restrictor / splice in your system? If there's one in an output hose from the pump, that might explain blowing seals.

Yours is a hydroboost system? This probably isn't important, since the brakes only use 10% of the pump's output, unlike hydraulic suspension which I believe is slightly more demanding.

My boss on Maui blocked off the suspension output of his E34 M5's pump, and pretty much immediately blew up the pump seals.

Your fluid level is pretty much correct: the fluid goes to the level of the screen, no higher. IF this is a hydroboost car, you must check the level AFTER shutting off the car, and pumping the brake pedal ~25 times.
 

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Discussion Starter #103 (Edited)
Power steering pump output hose

In every BMW system, there's on hose with an inexplicable splice in it. This splice is a restrictor. Usually, this is on the feed side of the pump, not the output side. Can you see a restrictor / splice in your system? If there's one in an output hose from the pump, that might explain blowing seals.
Hmmm , like this ?



The boys had to go to the shop to have a new hose made up when the engine swap was done, none in stock with BMW Indonesia or the local parts shops.

They made an exact copy of the original 20 year old hose.

The original hose had a splice also on the output hose , I'm now wondering if the splice / restrictor they used has a slightly smaller internal diameter ?

I was asking why there is a metal splice in the line.

Fog Lamps

The 540 is my test hack for ideas we want to try on the M5 , in this case replacing the useless fog lights with lights that provide better peripheral lighting.

The mounts are something we knocked up to see if the idea works. I'll drive it for a few weeks like this to try it out.

The lights are normally used on the Toyota Innova , a popular station wagon here.



I think they look good.

If we make some permanent mounts for these (for the M5s and the 540) I'd like to make them into dual purpose light/brake duct units.




--------
 

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Hydroboost? If so, did you pump the pedal many times before setting fluid level? The fluid rises dramatically when pedal is pumped repeatedly after shut off.

Yes, that's going to be the restrictor, because that's the only reason for a splice there. They might have even used the same restrictor, but perhaps got some crap in the hose when remaking it? Usually, though, a clogging restrictor will make the pump make noise, because it's running dry. Is that hose a feed to the pump, or an output / return from the pump? (I wouldn't think a clog in the pump feed would cause blowing out the seals, but in a return or output hose it would)

I bought a bunch of brake duct hose and some ducts from Summit Racing, but have so far been unable to figure out a reasonable path to run the hose to the hub area. Most BMW brake ducting kits are for cars with calipers at the rear of the rotors, ours are at the front... For the last event, I just removed the useless fog lights, which opened up a big path for extra air to the brakes.....can't tell if it was effective though, because all 3 days were extremely wet, brakes didn't get hot.
 

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Discussion Starter #105
Hydroboost? If so, did you pump the pedal many times before setting fluid level? The fluid rises dramatically when pedal is pumped repeatedly after shut off.

Yes, that's going to be the restrictor, because that's the only reason for a splice there. They might have even used the same restrictor, but perhaps got some crap in the hose when remaking it? Usually, though, a clogging restrictor will make the pump make noise, because it's running dry. Is that hose a feed to the pump, or an output / return from the pump? (I wouldn't think a clog in the pump feed would cause blowing out the seals, but in a return or output hose it would)

I bought a bunch of brake duct hose and some ducts from Summit Racing, but have so far been unable to figure out a reasonable path to run the hose to the hub area. Most BMW brake ducting kits are for cars with calipers at the rear of the rotors, ours are at the front... For the last event, I just removed the useless fog lights, which opened up a big path for extra air to the brakes.....can't tell if it was effective though, because all 3 days were extremely wet, brakes didn't get hot.
Restrictor is on the output side.

Thanks for the tip on pumping the brake pedal due to the hydroboost installation before checking the fluid level, that was the issue , I was overfilling. When hot the fluid had no headroom in the reservoir.

When I pumped the pedal the fluid level came up 2cm which is almost 1" !
 

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I'm so glad I could be of help, my friend!

Certainly, a clogged restrictor on the output of the pump could also cause blown seals. But when the fluid gets hot, the fluid needs somewhere to compress air, too, so I'd pick an overfull reservoir first, a clogged restrictor second. It seems you've found the issue, and I'll keep my fingers crossed!

(You could also consider pulling that hose off, and blowing backwards through it with compressed air, into a paint filter or screen, to see if there's crap there.After all, you don't want to have to go through another pump, just because it wasn't the overfull reservoir....)
 

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Discussion Starter #107
I'm so glad I could be of help, my friend!

Certainly, a clogged restrictor on the output of the pump could also cause blown seals. But when the fluid gets hot, the fluid needs somewhere to compress air, too, so I'd pick an overfull reservoir first, a clogged restrictor second. It seems you've found the issue, and I'll keep my fingers crossed!

(You could also consider pulling that hose off, and blowing backwards through it with compressed air, into a paint filter or screen, to see if there's crap there.After all, you don't want to have to go through another pump, just because it wasn't the overfull reservoir....)
It was the hydroboost.

When I got to the workshop this morning the fluid level was halfway down the reservoir , well below the screen level. About 6cm from the top

When I pumped the brakes 25 times the fluid was 1cm above the screen level when hot.

That was the problem , hot fluid with nowhere to go , I was inadvertently over filling the system.

Thanks Chris !
 

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Discussion Starter #108
ABS problem

Finally tracked down an annoying intermittent ABS fault to a cracked ABS sensor cable.

We've rewired the sensors with aircraft grade copper nickel wire from a salvaged Boeing 737 (I have the remains of 3 737s in the warehouse)

If you're doing any race car projects use aircraft cable , it doesn't catch fire (it smokes only) and is good for 20 or 30 years , it's high quality rugged cable.
 

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Finally tracked down an annoying intermittent ABS fault to a cracked ABS sensor cable.

We've rewired the sensors with aircraft grade copper nickel wire from a salvaged Boeing 737 (I have the remains of 3 737s in the warehouse)

If you're doing any race car projects use aircraft cable , it doesn't catch fire (it smokes only) and is good for 20 or 30 years , it's high quality rugged cable.
You're magnificent, Tony. I really can't think of anyone else who would tell us to fix their BMW ABS system by cutting wires off of a Boeing 737........ :grin

You're the best!

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #110 (Edited)
There's nothing wrong with the sensors and rather than buying new ones with the same crappy wire ... upgrade the wire

I'm cheap ... and practical

-----

I was looking at the dyno result again and I'm really pleased with the power curve.

I've managed to move peak power from 5,800 to 6,250 rpm and the power is there right up to redline which is unusual.

There's no changes to the stock engine except for the exhaust system after the stock exhaust manifolds.



These 4 x 1.75" pipes (from the M60B30) although short are causing a bottle neck before the expansion chambers , I'm going to make them 2.25" and 1/3 the length and extend the expansion chambers to make up the difference.

I can tell from the grey color when cold that these pipes are getting cherry red at sustained high rpm so they need to be bigger.



This mod will be done mid November and then back on the dyno

Now looking for an M62B44 to build an M60B44.

.
 

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Discussion Starter #111 (Edited)
Due to the oxidation on the 4 x 40mm diameter inlet pipes (stock 530 pipes cut short) I felt these 4 pipes were undersized with the M60B40 so last night the boys did some overtime and we doubled the cross sectional area of these pipes with 4 x 60mm diameter 316 stainless pipes.

The original pipes must have been glowing red hot at high rpm to get grey oxidation when they cool down.



Some interesting things happened

1. The idle is quieter but with more bass thump

2. An exhaust rasp at 2,300rpm is gone. With the M60B30 it wasn't there , it only started when the B40 was installed. The rasp was a pronounced increase in volume and turbulent exhaust burble at 2,200 to 2,400rpm , to me this is a sign of restriction.

3. Minor exhaust drone has moved from 1,700rpm to 1,300rpm

4. The 540 sounds evil at high rpm

5. Engine feels more responsive , we will dyno the car next week

Final step is a helmholtz resonator, I downloaded a frequency analyzer onto my Mac and theres a very strong signal at 80HZ , this equates to the drone being generated at 1,200rpm (my ear says 1,300rpm)

This will require 2 x 2" helmholtz resonators installed under the rear muffler , length 1.07 meters , I will have screw caps on the end of them so I can uncork them on track days.

After that not much more I can do with the exhaust system.

While the stock M60 exhaust manifolds are not ideal they're not too bad either and I like the twin wall design for keeping engine bay temperatures under control.

The only thing I can do with the exhaust manifolds is grind the cast exhaust manifold outlets a little bit bigger

So next will be the intake system.

The rule will be that the filter area can't be smaller than the stock filter element

----

Saturday is wrenching day ... tomorrow we have an E30 2.5 M3 Evo coming in for shim adjustment and an E36 with an Alpina M60B46 for 'show and tell'

.
 

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Nice work and a great report on your findings .

It is one of the great things about the E34 M5 section of the M5Board is the depth of knowledge and engineering capabilities of many board members .

As the numbers of E34 M5 owners diminish there will typically be a reduction in the number of posts or responses on here .

Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work .

D
 

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Discussion Starter #113
Thanks David , I like to tinker with exhausts, it's something that can't be 100% predicted with formulas and therefore still a bit of a black art.

The only way to really find out what works is to experiment.
 

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Discussion Starter #114 (Edited)
1990 E30 2.5 EVO visit

Today was helping an M3 owner with valve clearances, ITB balance and changing the ECU coolant sensor.

I went for a passenger seat run in the 1990 E30 M3 2.5 Evo , ok with this M3 I was impressed.

I didn't like the E30 M3 2.3 , I was really disappointed after all the hype, the 2.5 Evo fills in the gaps.

A really nice all round car , 9/10

In the days when they were cheap it would have been a fabulous DD

Type AK07
Model M3 - EUR
Development Code E30
Chassis LIM
Steering LL
Doors 2
Engine S14
Displacement 2.50
Power 175
Drivetrain HECK
Transmission MECH
Color Schwarz 2 - 668
Upholstery Schwarz Leder - 0393
Production Plant MUNICH
Production Date 1990-02-22



Options
401 Sliding/vent Roof, Electric Schiebe-hebedach, Elektrisch
410 Window Lifts, Electric At Front Fensterheber, Elektrisch Vorn
530 Air Conditioning Klimaanlage
681 Dachantenne Dachantenne
687 Radio Preparation Radiovorbereitung
819 Spain Version Spanien - Ausfuehrung
850 Add Fuel Tank Filling For Export Zusaetzl. Tankfuellung Export
856 Language Version Spanish Sprachversion Spanisch
 

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Discussion Starter #115 (Edited)


To get this sort of grey/white powdery corrosion on the surface of these pipes after the exhaust manifolds they had to get very hot.

The only time I've seen this before is on steel exhaust flues in old metal foundries

Has anyone else seen this white surface oxidation on pipes and in what application ?

These pipes were a rusty brown color with the M60B30 , the M60B40 was too much for them.

One of the manifold studs and bolt had welded together and snapped on removal , they had been replaced a year ago.



Looking at this table I would estimate around 700 to 800 deg C , now considering the EGT measured at the exhaust port of most engines is around 550 to 600 deg C this indicates a restriction causing a temperature rise.



When I checked the 60mm dia 316 stainless steel pipes yesterday after 50 kms of driving they had gone a golden brown color indicating a temperature of around 400 deg C , which is what I would expect to see further down the exhaust from the exhaust port.

I'm doing some sustained higher rpm tollway cruising this week so it will be interesting to see if there's further color changes.

I think this problem has been solved.
 

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Discussion Starter #116 (Edited)
Heat related problems continue

Although the water temp needle was centered or left tangent to centre I noticed the upper and lower radiator hoses had started to bulge and were on their way to failing. These hoses are less than 2 years old.

The top radiator hose was replaced on Saturday and the lower hose hopefully will be replaced today.

On the Indonesian assembled E34 5 series the starter relay is near the LHS strut tower halfway towards the headers and on a hot day it's always failing , the relay was also replaced on Saturday and will be relocated today to near the fan relays.

As the hood on this car has a few wrinkles I will probably end up replacing it when I repaint the car so I got the punch and flare tool out on Saturday and punched 8 holes in the bonnet as an experiment.

The flow coming out of the front holes is weak but the 4 rear holes are letting out a lot of hot air , a noticeable flow when holding your hand above the hole.

This modification has moved the water temp gauge another 0.5mm to the left and noticeably reduced the under hood temperature.

On the new hood I will use the 4 rear holes only , the front 4 holes looks a bit ghetto

.
 

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An interesting mod, for the 540. The gauge should read 1/2, or a hair above. Otherwise, you may be operating at too cold a temp, and closed loop may not occur. Of course, I'm not sure that your Indo cars have closed loop anyway, with no O2 sensors. Personally, I like a coolant temp of 187 to 192 F. This will have a center, or hair right of center gauge reading.

That amount of bulge in the hose, I consider normal. Our genuine hoses all have the reduction in diameter after the fitting, anyway, which keeps fluid flow unhampered. Crap aftermarket hoses don't have this. The very slight bulge happens after the clamp and metal barb.
 

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Discussion Starter #118
An interesting mod, for the 540. The gauge should read 1/2, or a hair above. Otherwise, you may be operating at too cold a temp, and closed loop may not occur. Of course, I'm not sure that your Indo cars have closed loop anyway, with no O2 sensors. Personally, I like a coolant temp of 187 to 192 F. This will have a center, or hair right of center gauge reading.
Hi Chris , no closed loop on this car , no O2 sensor or cat

Temp will go to centre or slightly right under load or extended idling in traffic

Before all the mods (radiator, fans) it would go to the indicator halfway to red.

That amount of bulge in the hose, I consider normal. Our genuine hoses all have the reduction in diameter after the fitting, anyway, which keeps fluid flow unhampered. Crap aftermarket hoses don't have this. The very slight bulge happens after the clamp and metal barb.
Not when the hose is under pressure , it's swelling to 30% more than this and I'm uncomfortable with that
 

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Oh, certainly, more pronounced swelling than we see in your picture would be bad.

How did you make the holes in the hood? The rolled edges are very clean looking......
 

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Discussion Starter #120
Oh, certainly, more pronounced swelling than we see in your picture would be bad.

How did you make the holes in the hood? The rolled edges are very clean looking......
Hi Chris , I used a punch and flare tool
 

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