[brainblade]

I have never run the e60 at super speeds and have never experienced brake fade...its really hard to comprehend how the tragedy unfolded and why and how they actually overshot...do you think it is possible that after excessive runs and superheated rotors that the brakes are the culprit? has anyone experienced this on runway speed tests? i know brake fade has occurred on track days, albeit minimal, but if the neighbor is ocrrect and they made a few runs, brake fading may have been a huge factor.

 

[Bunker37]

We should be able to calculate the speed they were going and determine if they used the brakes at all. They flew 200 feet, downsloped about 70 feet. We know the weight of the car inclusive 5 persons so a trajectory and entry speed could be calculated. Brake fade can be very harsh, but I would first like to know at what speed they became airborne.

 

[NickyBlack]

That crash looked like a suicide mission. Seems like they hardly braked. Car was a ball of mangles metal. Sad tragedy.

 

[Audioguy]

On the subject of brake fade, I think its hard to predict. Speaking about their actions that night would be speculation. I would not eliminate brake fade as a contributor, but there was such a large margin of error that brake fade is probably a negligible factor.

I did the math using the numbers published by the news.
After leaving some room for error and aerodynamics drag, they left the airstrip somewhere between 60-70mph. I think their position in the air at the time of the collision was the worst it could have been. This eliminated any chance of survival.

What a shame…

-Audio

 

[Way2fast]

I think these kids had made several attempts at trying to hit 150 and just stayed on it to long and when they tried to stop ran out of pavement. I thought I read that the skidmarks showed they were trying to turn and went off sideways. I do not think there is anyway you could hit 150 and come to a stop in 1.5 miles with 4 people in the car. I would never buy my teenager a 500 HP car.

 

[r tuned]

Hello ALL,

I was thinking wouldn't it be possible that they de-limited the car and drove beyond the tires speed limit which might have lead to that crash ??

 

[andrewsherman]

The car was just out of the break-in period and according to his posts, he had not done any mods yet, so I do not think it was de-limited. What he drove beyond was not the limts of the tires, but the limits of his skills and the conditions (including the length of the runway and, if true, the fact that he was allegedly drinking).

 

[Carl Lassiter]

Hello ALL,

I was thinking wouldn't it be possible that they de-limited the car and drove beyond the tires speed limit which might have lead to that crash ??

Well there were no shredded tires so, as andrewsherman has said, tire failure is not a factor. Panicing and turning sideways didn't help the attempts to stop.

Remember, 170mph (155mph is just marketing talk) takes a whole lot of road to stop from when reaction time is factored into the equation.

 

[davem3smg]

My guess is that this has nothing to do with brake fade. I've never experienced brake fade on my M5, but I take my M3 to the track occasionally and it takes a lot of very hard and quickly repeated braking for there to be a large, noticeable amount of brake fade.

My guess is that, inexperience, drinking, peer pressure, etc all aside, the biggest factor has nothing to do with brake fade but rather that it was dark at 3AM and they were overdriving their headlights. It's likely that the airstrip had no lighting other than possibly the outline lights. The headlights on these cars are meant for everyday, street-legal driving; NOT for driving 170 MPH on an otherwise dark roadway. One of the biggest challenges that new drivers have to overcome is judging distances at night. The situation that these guys put themselves in is almost certainly one that they've never experienced before; trying to judge distances on an entirely dark runway, overdriving their headlights at 170 MPH.

 

[MGZ]

I have only an M5 e39 but the first time you take a car up to abt 140-150mph it really comes as a big surprise how long distance it takes to stop the car even if its equipped with a BBK.
And driving in the dark - so very hard to judge distances.
This tragic accident has made me decide to take it a lot easier in the future, and only mod the car for better roadholding and braking.
Top speed and accleration is good enough.

 

[RussRamz]

From the length of the runway data I have seen, it appears he had more than enough distance to accelerate and decelerate. The problem is that without runway remaining markers on most modern runways, your depth perception, coupled with the fact it was at night likely resulted in him not picking an adequate brake point. Like others have mentioned, turning the wheel while braking only compounded an already bad situation. This is clearly a result of a lack of adequate preparation and training.

 

[erikmoeser]

Audioguy, your number is good, works with G (32ft/sec/sec). The look of the car suggests a much higher speed, but if sideways, may be right as cars are probably built to better withstand frontal impacts.

The drop from airstrip level to 15 feet off the ground, 70 feet, would take a little over 2 seconds. 200 feet in say 2.1 seconds is 95 feet/sec or 65 mph.

Their next best bet would have been to delimit the car, go 200 mph over the edge, drop only about 10 feet and possibly clear the trees. The "landing" would still have been a problem.

As pointed out by my brother, is there really any place in Florida 85 feet or more above sea level?

 

[Barry Lausch]

My guess is that this has nothing to do with brake fade. I've never experienced brake fade on my M5, but I take my M3 to the track occasionally and it takes a lot of very hard and quickly repeated braking for there to be a large, noticeable amount of brake fade.

My guess is that, inexperience, drinking, peer pressure, etc all aside, the biggest factor has nothing to do with brake fade but rather that it was dark at 3AM and they were overdriving their headlights. It's likely that the airstrip had no lighting other than possibly the outline lights. The headlights on these cars are meant for everyday, street-legal driving; NOT for driving 170 MPH on an otherwise dark roadway. One of the biggest challenges that new drivers have to overcome is judging distances at night. The situation that these guys put themselves in is almost certainly one that they've never experienced before; trying to judge distances on an entirely dark runway, overdriving their headlights at 170 MPH.

+1 Add in 4 passengers + driver.....900+/- lbs. additional mass in motion.

 

[[email protected]]

Can you guys link me to the accident you are talking about?

 

[erikmoeser]

Here you go.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=111545

http://www.ocala.com/article/2008012...55/1001/NEWS01

 

[rogerville]

My beast is one year old and from the very beginning i fell that brakes take more time to reduce high speeds than expected (at least for me). The sensation is that the pedal would need more pressure to stop the car. Reducing today from 190 to 90 trying not to hit a car in front of me didn´t gave all the security I would desire ( in fact I had to over take the other car by the right side instead of pressing more the brake pedal)
Does anyone consider this normal or maybe is my luck of pressure in my right leg???

 

[AvusAndy]

i cant tell you how sad i was when i read that, my heart dropped, M5 is no differnt then a loaded gun if not treaded with the utmost dicipline and respect it will kill you. I am 33 i love to drive fast our cars reward us when pushed to the limit, BUT!!! knowing when it's time to ease off is the difference @ 18 and 33..really sad