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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
gents,

I love this board and and have been a daily visitor since I joined five years ago, but recently I feel that due to the disproportionate number of posts highlighting reliability issues and breakdowns, I fell like every time I logon I am left wondering what can go wrong with my car!

I guess if we ran the numbers, statistics would show that 2 or 3 yrs ago, when the e60/61 was at an earlier stage of its lifecycle, people were more interested in posting kills, races and mods than questions about reliability and repairs.

whats my point? not sure!
 

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When you drive any type of car you will have some mechanical issues, especially with a higher end cars. These are complex creatures and at times things could go wrong.
In the bigger scheme of things, I have not seen what you are describing about the M5-e60. It is a very reliable car. You should not be paralized from enjoying your car by thinking that something is going to go wrong. If that is the issue you are having, then you might want to own a honda or a toyota and stop worrying. Life is way too short.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
sanchezdds,

you are right, life is too short to worry, but if you haven't seen any evidence of reliability issues on this board, then you must be looking at different board buddy.

I also agree that these are complex creatures and that things do go wrong with high end performance beasts.

and by the way I do own a toyota (in the form of a lexus) for reliability and peace of mind.
 

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I don't do anything crazy that I would know it breaks my car or shorten it's life. Other than that, I drive it the way it's been designed to be driven! If something breaks down, then I worry about that item, if not........I enjoy the beast.
Over all, I think this vehicle is very reliable. I have NEVER had any issues with it!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
V10PWR,

Agreed. i have driven this car hard for 55000 kms and never had a breakdown. So i feel what you're saying.

my point is that reading about all these nightmares on the board keeps you guessing about when its gonna happen to you!
 

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I have read some of the issues, and I have taken a mental note of some! All I can do is just be aware of signs of break down and prevent what could be prevented from breaking! Other than that, there are only 2 choices That I can think of:
1. Park the car in garage, and just make sure the battery doesn’t die after some time! (Which is another issue!):sad1:
2. Get rid of it, and when I am complementing someone else’s ride, tell him “I used to have one!”??????<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o:p></o:p>
What else could be done?
Of course I am talking about a vehicle that is within its life expectancy!
 

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Obviously, when you own something as expensive as an M5 it does cross your mind. Let it cross your mind and make it go on its way. Don't inhibit yourself from really enjoying the fruits of your labor. Get in the car and enjoy that you own an M5.
 
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My thoughts as well (sorry, it's long)

I recently purchased a 2008 M5 myself, and although it has some warranty left and the car has been well cared for (I know the guy who originally leased it for 3 years) after reading some of the posts I too have sometimes wondered "what have I done?". I am a good mechanic (not my profession, but a life-long hobby) and have built many racing motors over the years and swapped engines in and out of different cars, so for me buying a used car is usually not an issue because i can pull the motor and rebuild it if necessary. However, with the price of the parts of this E60 it has me a little concerned. However, here are a couple of points I use to make myself feel better:

1. Before this M5, I had an E60 530i for 4 years (98000 mi), an E46 M3 for a year and a half (13000 mi), and an E90 330i for a year (10000 mi), and a '95 318 (130,000 mi) and none of those cars ever gave me any major mechanical or electrical problems. So as far as the electronics and non-M mechanicals, I think BMW has thier act together and reliability is very good.

2. The main issues I worry about (which are expensive for me to fix myself out of warranty due to parts costs) are the VANOS issues. (I have a manual transmission so the SMG is not a concern, however my point below may apply to the SMG as well) However, after researching the problem on and off for some time, I have come to realize several things:

a.) I have heard of several VANOS issues on this board, however there are thousands of M5s driving around that have not had a problem.

b.) The problems seem to mainly occur on cars which meet two criteria (I say MAINLY)

1. 2006 models appear to blow an VANOS oil line and have steering sensor issues
-This problem seems to be corrected on the 2007+ cars

2. All years sometimes blow the VANOS pump or VANOS actuator selenoids.
- In these cases it appears that the cars are generally northern cars (based on the information in the posts), and the posts about the problems seem to appear in the winter months (Nov-March). This leads me to believe that perhaps the engine is being revved too high (not necessarily to the redline, but high enough to create excessive oil pressure from the mechanical VANOS pump) when the heavy 10-60 oil is cold and thick and the VANOS bleed-off valves cannot bleed off enough pressure, which perhaps overpressurizes the system and ruptures the seals or the pump.

To try to remedy this, I am religious about not taking the engine over 3000 RPM until the oil temperature has reached ~210'F, which I hope will prevent the VANOS issue from happening. I believe the SMG issue could also be related to the cold if it also is having pump or seal issues since it also has a high pressure pump, however I have not focused on that since my car is not equipped with SMG. If it is related to a pressure problem and the cold, I don't know how you would prevent the SMG pump from overpressurizing when cold unless the pump is driven off the input shaft, in which case keep the engine revs down until it's warm.

These are my personal thoughts, but I feel they seem reasonable. The M5 was built and extensively tested on racetracks (IE Nurburgring and BMWs engineering track) so I believe the M5 is a mechanically sound design. All cars will have sometimes have issues (knock on wood), but as long as they aren't serious (meaning expensive parts) mechanical issues then I can deal with them. Since my car has been a Florida car (so hopefully no cold temperatures for the previous owner to overpressureize and stress the oil system) and I plan to protect it from revving too high when it's cold, I expect for it to last a long time. I guess we'll see....

We also have to remember that there is a difference between driving a car hard and abusing it. Abuse doesn't only mean doing donuts while the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter, but it can be as simple as revving the motor when it's cold (like starting it up and revving it right away for your friend to hear), or driving the car hard before it is warmed up and ready. Also, I don't trust the moving redline on the tach. I let the oil temp tell me when it's ready to run, just like in my SCCA camaro.


-Dave
 

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Sometimes I just enjoy the the car as if it were fine art and other times I worry about what is going to break. There is no such thing as a perfect car and the sheer pleasure of driving this car out weighs the worry.
 

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The '06 was the first E60 model year. This model year, has the most problems out of every other in the E60 lifecycle (not surprising).

First model years always have issues that need to be worked out, so will the F10 M5.

Someone I know with an '06 E60 had a few issues.

I had zero issues with my '08 M5. It was also in an accident, and after repair I had no issues.

I have zero issues with my '10 M5, until just recently an O2 sensor went bad putting the car in limp mode. Simple fix though.

I treat my cars VERY well.. I don't let other people touch them. They last, and are very reliable.

Also, the most important: How you treat your car the first ~two thousand miles (break-in period) determines how reliable and efficient it will be during the course of it's life.


In my opinion, a car is in it's prime during it's first two years of life. After two years, it is time for it to go.. they just wear down. This is the reason why I lease my cars for only 2 years. There are some cars I have that I lease for 3 years, only because they are not driven often, so year 3 for them is like year 2 for my daily driver.

After 2 years your bound to start having some issues.. just how it is - this is my experience with every car I have owned.

I just recently (3 days ago) replaced MBZ S65's from '09 to '11, and it is a huge difference from before. They are the exact same (chasis/engine/etc) besides some new tech (interior).
 

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gents,

I love this board and and have been a daily visitor since I joined five years ago, but recently I feel that due to the disproportionate number of posts highlighting reliability issues and breakdowns, I fell like every time I logon I am left wondering what can go wrong with my car!

I guess if we ran the numbers, statistics would show that 2 or 3 yrs ago, when the e60/61 was at an earlier stage of its lifecycle, people were more interested in posting kills, races and mods than questions about reliability and repairs.

whats my point? not sure!
When is comes to car message boards always remember this.. How many people will take the time to post...
Today took a drive and Nothing went wrong/ My car has been flawless for....... People will tend to post more about
things that go wrong. Car message boards will always be skewed towards the negative.
 
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Never forget very few people post "Hey drove today and nothing unusual happened" but they will post if it does (if for no other reason than to vent). It's always a bad idea to judge the quality of a product by the post on a public forums unless you fact in this natural reverse weighting factor of nearly 10000-1.

BTW drove to and from work today with no problem. Car works fine. Nothing unusual to report.
 

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Thanks for your nice post and contribution.

I recently purchased a 2008 M5 myself, and although it has some warranty left and the car has been well cared for (I know the guy who originally leased it for 3 years) after reading some of the posts I too have sometimes wondered "what have I done?". I am a good mechanic (not my profession, but a life-long hobby) and have built many racing motors over the years and swapped engines in and out of different cars, so for me buying a used car is usually not an issue because i can pull the motor and rebuild it if necessary. However, with the price of the parts of this E60 it has me a little concerned. However, here are a couple of points I use to make myself feel better:

1. Before this M5, I had an E60 530i for 4 years (98000 mi), an E46 M3 for a year and a half (13000 mi), and an E90 330i for a year (10000 mi), and a '95 318 (130,000 mi) and none of those cars ever gave me any major mechanical or electrical problems. So as far as the electronics and non-M mechanicals, I think BMW has thier act together and reliability is very good.

2. The main issues I worry about (which are expensive for me to fix myself out of warranty due to parts costs) are the VANOS issues. (I have a manual transmission so the SMG is not a concern, however my point below may apply to the SMG as well) However, after researching the problem on and off for some time, I have come to realize several things:

a.) I have heard of several VANOS issues on this board, however there are thousands of M5s driving around that have not had a problem.

b.) The problems seem to mainly occur on cars which meet two criteria (I say MAINLY)

1. 2006 models appear to blow an VANOS oil line and have steering sensor issues
-This problem seems to be corrected on the 2007+ cars

2. All years sometimes blow the VANOS pump or VANOS actuator selenoids.
- In these cases it appears that the cars are generally northern cars (based on the information in the posts), and the posts about the problems seem to appear in the winter months (Nov-March). This leads me to believe that perhaps the engine is being revved too high (not necessarily to the redline, but high enough to create excessive oil pressure from the mechanical VANOS pump) when the heavy 10-60 oil is cold and thick and the VANOS bleed-off valves cannot bleed off enough pressure, which perhaps overpressurizes the system and ruptures the seals or the pump.

To try to remedy this, I am religious about not taking the engine over 3000 RPM until the oil temperature has reached ~210'F, which I hope will prevent the VANOS issue from happening. I believe the SMG issue could also be related to the cold if it also is having pump or seal issues since it also has a high pressure pump, however I have not focused on that since my car is not equipped with SMG. If it is related to a pressure problem and the cold, I don't know how you would prevent the SMG pump from overpressurizing when cold unless the pump is driven off the input shaft, in which case keep the engine revs down until it's warm.

These are my personal thoughts, but I feel they seem reasonable. The M5 was built and extensively tested on racetracks (IE Nurburgring and BMWs engineering track) so I believe the M5 is a mechanically sound design. All cars will have sometimes have issues (knock on wood), but as long as they aren't serious (meaning expensive parts) mechanical issues then I can deal with them. Since my car has been a Florida car (so hopefully no cold temperatures for the previous owner to overpressureize and stress the oil system) and I plan to protect it from revving too high when it's cold, I expect for it to last a long time. I guess we'll see....

We also have to remember that there is a difference between driving a car hard and abusing it. Abuse doesn't only mean doing donuts while the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter, but it can be as simple as revving the motor when it's cold (like starting it up and revving it right away for your friend to hear), or driving the car hard before it is warmed up and ready. Also, I don't trust the moving redline on the tach. I let the oil temp tell me when it's ready to run, just like in my SCCA camaro.


-Dave


Sent from my phone
 

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Agreed!

Obviously, when you own something as expensive as an M5 it does cross your mind. Let it cross your mind and make it go on its way. Don't inhibit yourself from really enjoying the fruits of your labor. Get in the car and enjoy that you own an M5.


Sent from my phone
 

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Coming from the 3/1 series boards I think you guys have it pretty good over here.
1. Every other thread isn't about HPFP failures
2. The average owner age is older than 18
3. You don't have obviously feuding vendors with their respective camps thread jacking and starting forum wars all the time.

However, with the E60 becoming more and more affordable on the used market you may see a steady decline in owner maturity and, like any aging model, see more and more failures.

I'm a noob and that's my impression...
 

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Good points. Also, the mature old and new members will descent on the F10 M5 generation, probably around a year from now.

Coming from the 3/1 series boards I think you guys have it pretty good over here.
1. Every other thread isn't about HPFP failures
2. The average owner age is older than 18
3. You don't have obviously feuding vendors with their respective camps thread jacking and starting forum wars all the time.

However, with the E60 becoming more and more affordable on the used market you may see a steady decline in owner maturity and, like any aging model, see more and more failures.

I'm a noob and that's my impression...
 

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I always love the M5 heritage and when I bought my 2007 E60 M5, I read all the posts on breakdowns and for awhile I was like " whats going to happen to my M5." For 40,000 miles it has had a clean bill of health, little things like steering trim peeling but thats all. If anything happens I am sure I can handle and take car of it, as long as the engine doesn't go BOOM on me.

Take care guys!
 
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