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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
its a little off topic but i'm asking for a friend.
was there someone on here that was reimbursed for value diminishing due to bmw having to replace a motor in a lo mileage mcar? i thought i read it on here but it might be roadfly.
if so can you pm me details or post the letter that led to it?
my friend has a 2004 m3 that blew the motor (20k miles) doing 50 miles an hour on the hwy with his kid and wife in the car. he was putting it up for sale this week since he ordered a new 3 series wagon for the kid space.
but now he thinks hes going to take a huge hit with a brand new motor replacement.
any ideas?
 

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Well I'll comment, but cannot point you to a letter...

Diminished value is an interesting concept- Is there a decrease in value even if the repair is perfect.

Here is the problem: who is liable for diminished value? If someone hits you, then they are liable for you losses, including a diminished value loss. But if you hit a tree, your insurance company has a CONTRACT to fix your car- they are not liable for your losses, but just to fix your car.

With a warranty claim, I am skeptical that the warranty would create a legal 'path' to allow a diminished value claim.

Any attys with a thought on this?

How about getting the dealership to give him private party value on the trade- if he has trouble selling it with a new motor....
 

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I don't think any compensation was provided for "diminished value" relating to the cluster of 2001 M3 cars that had faulty motors. In general, owners were grateful that BMW finally quit blaming the driver and offered free repairs. IMO, the repairs were a bandaid...replacing crank bearings and hoping the marginal, scored cranks hold up. The repair that BMW offered on M3 was something a backyard mechanic would do to repair a 15 year old K-car to get another season out of it. :grrrrr:

Educated consumers stay away from those mfg dates, so owners simply suffer the consequences at resale.
 

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if the engine was replaced, i'd see that as a plus. Like buying a 150k mile e34 540 with a 50k mile alusil block. It's a bonus. You can generally get the car a little cheaper because of the engine concerns, but if it's been replaced i'd be comfortable. I personally would avoid a car that just got the 'updated' oil pump and rod bearings. I know a fellow cca instructor who brought is 80k+ mile e46 m3 in for the recall. they slapped a new set of bearings on the 80k crank and sent him on his way, no measurements, no plastigauge nothing... That just doesn't seem smart to me, and they only have to warranty it for another 20k miles.
Mike
 

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It should add value to have a wear-item replaced with an imporved and/or new item. If my brakes, clutch, power steering, or any other item that will wear out is replaced, I don't see how this could diminish the value. If the part replaced was a defective design and the new part is still the same design, you'd have a problem, or if a used part was installed. Parts replaced or repaired after an accident where the replacement does not bring the vehicle up to or beyond it's pre-crash state of condition would have a dimished value.
 

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Lscman said:
I don't think any compensation was provided for "diminished value" relating to the cluster of 2001 M3 cars that had faulty motors. In general, owners were grateful that BMW finally quit blaming the driver and offered free repairs. IMO, the repairs were a bandaid...replacing crank bearings and hoping the marginal, scored cranks hold up. The repair that BMW offered on M3 was something a backyard mechanic would do to repair a 15 year old K-car to get another season out of it. :grrrrr:

Educated consumers stay away from those mfg dates, so owners simply suffer the consequences at resale.
Are you sure about this? That is just insane. I thought they replaced all damaged parts, not just slapped a new set of bearings onto the crankshaft.

David
 

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DavidS said:
Are you sure about this? That is just insane. I thought they replaced all damaged parts, not just slapped a new set of bearings onto the crankshaft.

David
there have been a couple of service bullitens, i believe.The first one replaced the oil pump and rod bearings, the second one replaced rod bearings again. Engines were only replaced if they totally failed. I know of at least the one example i posted about where a guy got the bearings and oil pump with 80k on his car.
Mike
 

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DavidS said:
Are you sure about this? That is just insane. I thought they replaced all damaged parts, not just slapped a new set of bearings onto the crankshaft.

David
I've got to believe that a decent mechanic would inspect the journals for damage... maybe the TSB didn't automatically replace the crank. Maybe they left it vague on purpose- and left it to the mechanic? If it was my car, I'd want to see the surfaces...

Somewhere there is a spec on allowable wear/surface condition....

Most owners are just so incredibly ignorant and compliant- especially when the monolithic "We are BMW and we will fix it per the factory" story is laid on them. Most folks will think- 'great, the factory is getting behind this'... (when they should be thinking 'grab your ankles', I guess...)

A
 

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The service repair for these defects was a sad bandaid....motors were not pulled for careful inspection and/or replacement of crankshaft. Any decent mechanic knows that metal particulate embedded in rod or main bearings will invariably score/wear the crank to some extent. BMW ignored this fact and recommended that their mechanics replace bearings with the motor & crank still installed. Under this service shortcut scenerio, the crankshaft simply can not not be thoroughly measured or inspected because this requires disassembly. In addition, the crank was never rotated 360 degrees with the bearing caps are off. Crank condition assessment was a spot-check and subjective "guess", at best. It's safe to say that total engine replacement only occurred if the motor blew up or when the mechanic buttoned up the bottom end and there was almost no oil pressure.

This is why E46 M3 and MZ3 variants with certain date codes will have chronically depressed resale values.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
UPDATE:
my friend went to take pictures of the damage today at the dealer , and sitting next to his car out side was a crate from bmw with his refurbished s54 motor... and invoice with his name on it and the crate painted with his last name on it. basically they lied about giving him a new motor.
the SR wasnt there to comment about it. my friend took pictures of everything including the invoice. we'll see what sparks fly on monday..

ray
 

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I'd imagine that a handful of people got brand new factory motors when BMW first started to replace motors that totally failed, because they probably didn't have may motors around to refurb. But, I can't say for sure. MOST people got refurbished motors if their S54 totally gave out.

Your friend will get SQUAT ouf ot this. BMW didn't even acknowledge this as their problem until way into the problem. Roadfly has over 150 cases of blown motors, and that's only people savvy enough to get online and read the forums, or know others with S54's that had failed, there is probably hundreds and hundreds more then that. BMW will simply put the new motor in and cover it all under warranty.
 

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Lscman said:
This is why E46 M3 and MZ3 variants with certain date codes will have chronically depressed resale values.
There's still plenty of people out there with NO clue about this issue. The populus of people who do know about it and are buying this car are extremely small. They will probably try to throw that against you as a way to hammer down the price, but there are plenty of other people out that won't know about it and want your car.
 

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ray540inyc said:
his refurbished s54 motor... and invoice with his name on it and the crate painted with his last name on it.
So they took out his motor and had it refurbed? By who?

Or is it a remanufacturered motor?

If it is remaned, that is probably the best he can hope to get- if it is refurbed, that is a horrible can of worms. WHat was done, what was checked/cleaned/measured?.... what a crap shoot. Can BMW send a motor outside of the BMW system to get 'refurbed'??

Tell him good luck...
 

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ard said:
So they took out his motor and had it refurbed? By who?

Or is it a remanufacturered motor?

If it is remaned, that is probably the best he can hope to get- if it is refurbed, that is a horrible can of worms. WHat was done, what was checked/cleaned/measured?.... what a crap shoot. Can BMW send a motor outside of the BMW system to get 'refurbed'??

Tell him good luck...
BMW service and most other OEM's use motors that they refer to as remanufactured. Some refer to this as rebuilt, overhauled or refurbished. In any case, it is a culmination of used & new parts...almost good as new. Generally they offer the same lifecycle as new.
 

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Lscman said:
BMW service and most other OEM's use motors that they refer to as remanufactured. Some refer to this as rebuilt, overhauled or refurbished. In any case, it is a culmination of used & new parts...almost good as new. Generally they offer the same lifecycle as new.
Sure, that's totally expected.

In reading the post, I kind of assumed it was a misconception about 'new' versus 'remanned'...

But if it was his motor, taken out and sent somewhere for refurbing, that sounded fishy.

I generally have no qualms with remanned parts done by the OEM (BMW or their jobbers). They have the processes to do it right- when you are refurbing a single motor, you need to use all the parts- you don't have the luxury of bins of new or inspected-to-new parts to choose from...

In looking to sell the car, I'd represent the car as having a 'new BMW motor' even if it was technically a remanufactured BMW motor...with no qualms.

A
 

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ard said:
Sure, that's totally expected.
In looking to sell the car, I'd represent the car as having a 'new BMW motor' even if it was technically a remanufactured BMW motor...with no qualms.

A
I'd do that as well. If your friend has accurate service records and can show he treated the car properly, if you try to sell this vehicle across the ethusiasts boards, some people consider a new motor to be an advantage because it's like starting over on the motor.
 
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