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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted this thread about a seized bearing after ~56K miles. At the time of my last post, I was waiting for BMW decide whether it would provide goodwill support outside of the standard warranty (without an extended warranty).

To update the situation:

BMW authorized the dealership to disassemble the engine to inspect it for damage. My SA said that the fact BMWNA authorized the out-of-warranty work without the dealership first having to seek my approval of a cost estimate generally means BMWNA intends to pay for a substantial part of the repairs.

Based on the inspection, the dealership advised BMWNA that the bearing on the number 8 cylinder had "seized." (Initial indications were that it was just loose.) After a great deal of back and forth with BMWNA, the service manager informed me that BMWNA was going to repair or replace the engine -- on the condition that I make a contribution to the costs.

As discussed in my prior thread, it is typical for manufacturers to expect the owner to bear the cost determined by the ratio of the mileage over 100K miles. Using that formula, my contribution would have been 56%.

Instead, my contribution is supposed to be limited to $1,500. This could be attributable to several factors: my personal brand and dealer loyalty; the service history of this particular car (i.e., I am religious about regular service visits); no evidence of abuse of the vehicle; my demonstrated knowledge of the similar situation on the M3s; remaining pleasant and patient; etc.

The estimate for the total cost has not yet been determined. It's been 3 weeks, and the dealership has not yet started "repairs." The dealerships service team is continuing to work with BMW engineers to diagnose the problem and determine the scope of repairs that BMWNA determines are necessary.

The scope of repairs would either be the complete replacement of the engine or the replacement of all parts that could have been damaged by the bearing seizing. According to my SA, BMWNA normally recommends replacing the engine once the costs of repair are ~75% of the cost of a new engine.

If BMWNA decides to replace the engine, I would pay ~6.5% of the ~$23,000 costs. That allocation seems very fair to me.

As of last week, BMWNA was leaning towards replacing only the rotating assembly, flywheel and oil pump. The SA estimated that would cost ~$15,000. I would pay 10%. That allocation seems fair to me. The issue is whether that solves the entire problem, or whether some further hidden damage may be lurking.

I was at the dealership yesterday and walked into the Service Manager's office while his senior staff was discussing my car with an engineer from BMW who was present on site. (I was pretty impressed.) The engineer was recommending that the dealership do further inspection under the valve covers to determine whether any particulate matter from seized bearing might have contaminated the top part of the engine. His recommendation was to replace the engine if they find any evidence of contamination.

No further word today. I have a 325 loaner car from the dealership as of yesterday.

So far, I'm pleased with how the dealership went to bat for me and with BMWNA's response to the situation. I think they are doing the right thing from a customer relations and business standpoint. Makes me feel better about being #2 on the M6 list.
 

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Sounding good so far :)
 

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Congratulations. I'm impressed with how your dealer and BMWNA handled the situation.
 

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Good work! BMW stood by me when my '83 528e went bad at 54K and man was I happy they did! I paid a similar amount (labor) to replace the engine. My guess is you would be hard pressed to find anther manufacturer that helps in this fashion! This is why I just bought my extended warranty for original owners. Too nerve racking for me.
 

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You've got a good dealership on your hands and BMW seems to be pretty accomodating. I wish they were in my brake claim. Oh well. Good luck.
 

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Very glad it all worked out.Now when you get your new motor please sell me your car.:cheers: :1:
 

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Jim,

If it was me, I wouldn't risk the contamination issue. The bearing did not just instantly fail, so the chances that contaminated oil was circulated through the motor are very high in my opinion. If this was a Pinto motor, sure, partial rebuild the bad parts and see what happens. With an S62 -- no way. Again, my opinion. I also don't believe that a simple visual examination is sufficient to competently say what, if any, contamination is present AND whether or not it was sufficient to cause additional wear/problem(s). If the oil residue was sampled and evaluated, that will answer the contamination issue (Blackstone labs could probably eval a small sample of oil from the head area). The really dark area is what level of "contamination" is sufficient to cause an issue since the big unknown will be the time such contamination was present -- unfortunately, there won’t ever be an answer to this question. Only a tear down/measurement/competent inspection of the rest of the motor will fully answer this question (again, all my opinion of course!).

Net result -- get a new motor or else get a written and complete warranty from BMW for the repaired motor.

I'm glad to see your case is moving along reasonably well; however, I can imagine you have beast withdrawal setting in a big way too. :sad1:

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
If it was me, I wouldn't risk the contamination issue. The bearing did not just instantly fail, so the chances that contaminated oil was circulated through the motor are very high in my opinion. If this was a Pinto motor, sure, partial rebuild the bad parts and see what happens. With an S62 -- no way. Again, my opinion.
Thanks for the thoughtful advice Chuck. Yes. That's my concern too. I am laying low and hoping BMWNA reaches that conclusion without my having to insist on a new engine. I think the economic allocation would be different if they recommend repairs and I insist on replacement.
I also don't believe that a simple visual examination is sufficient to competently say what, if any, contamination is present AND whether or not it was sufficient to cause additional wear/problem(s). If the oil residue was sampled and evaluated, that will answer the contamination issue (Blackstone labs could probably eval a small sample of oil from the head area). The really dark area is what level of "contamination" is sufficient to cause an issue since the big unknown will be the time such contamination was present -- unfortunately, there won’t ever be an answer to this question. Only a tear down/measurement/competent inspection of the rest of the motor will fully answer this question (again, all my opinion of course!).
Good points. I don't know the exact process that the technicians will follow, but I'm guessing that it is not just a visual inspection.
Net result -- get a new motor or else get a written and complete warranty from BMW for the repaired motor.
I've already raised the warranty point with my SA, and asked whether the car would qualify for sale as a CPO vehicle.

There is also a diminution in value concern. A recent edition of Roundel contained a letter from a prospective purchaser of an M3 who was trying to find out how to determine from the VIN whether it was one of the cars that had been subject to the recall because of the bearing problems in that series. The implication was that some purchasers would avoid a vehicle tainted by the bearing concern or by the fact that it had an engine replacement. That could decrease the value of those cars.

I don't understand why a potential buyer would be concerned about a car that had the engine replaced because of a manufacturing defect. A new engine is a benefit, not a detriment. Personally, I'd be more concerned if no preventative action had been taken for the potential problem (e.g., replacing the bearings).

In any case, a warranty on the new engine would go far to preserving the value of the car in my hands, by providing assurances to a prospective buyer. It's the same principle as buying a CPO BMW.

The dealership did say they could CPO the car if the engine were repaired (less than full replacement), but that means I have to sell the car to a dealership to realize that benefit.
I'm glad to see your case is moving along reasonably well; however, I can imagine you have beast withdrawal setting in a big way too.
You know it. I drove a rental car for 21 days. The 3 series loaner is a big step up -- but it's no M5. :M5rev:
 

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I am glad to see BMW and the dealer are stepping up to the plate on this one. Best of luck and please let us know how things work out.
 

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CSBM5 said:
Jim,

If it was me, I wouldn't risk the contamination issue. The bearing did not just instantly fail, so the chances that contaminated oil was circulated through the motor are very high in my opinion. If this was a Pinto motor, sure, partial rebuild the bad parts and see what happens. With an S62 -- no way. Again, my opinion. I also don't believe that a simple visual examination is sufficient to competently say what, if any, contamination is present AND whether or not it was sufficient to cause additional wear/problem(s). If the oil residue was sampled and evaluated, that will answer the contamination issue (Blackstone labs could probably eval a small sample of oil from the head area). The really dark area is what level of "contamination" is sufficient to cause an issue since the big unknown will be the time such contamination was present -- unfortunately, there won’t ever be an answer to this question. Only a tear down/measurement/competent inspection of the rest of the motor will fully answer this question (again, all my opinion of course!).

Net result -- get a new motor or else get a written and complete warranty from BMW for the repaired motor.

I'm glad to see your case is moving along reasonably well; however, I can imagine you have beast withdrawal setting in a big way too. :sad1:

Chuck
Jim
IMHO I have to agree totally with Chuck's statement. If this engine spun or seized a bearing there is contamination all through the engine. If the engine is taken out and disassembled, cleaned, inspected, and replace all damage parts then I would say ok. But I doubt they would do that. It's cheaper for them to replace the engine, and that's what you want. Like you said go along with them until the decision comes to replace or repair. If it's replace, good for you and you don't have to say anything. If it's repair then we have to talk.

Good Luck
Joe
 

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JFB said:
So far, I'm pleased with how the dealership went to bat for me and with BMWNA's response to the situation. I think they are doing the right thing from a customer relations and business standpoint. Makes me feel better about being #2 on the M6 list.
That's great news, Jim. Further testament to how a firm and reasoned approach to such situations works better than the battle cry. I hope it continues to progress as you would hope.

It IS nice to hear an example of BMWNA and your dealer franchise doing right by a loyal customer. While we read a lot of the horror stories on these pages, I know that there's plenty of goodwill that exists when you develop a strong relationship with your local dealership. I'm glad your dealer assisted in going to bat for you.

Continued good luck!
-Dave
 

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Teutonaddict said:
It IS nice to hear an example of BMWNA and your dealer franchise doing right by a loyal customer. While we read a lot of the horror stories on these pages, I know that there's plenty of goodwill that exists when you develop a strong relationship with your local dealership. I'm glad your dealer assisted in going to bat for you.
Dave,

I just went through a major issue with Volvo and our 2004 V70R. After it passed lemon law requirements, they stepped up and offered a too good to be true deal to get a new 2005 model (about $4k better than the lemon law would have provided!). We jumped on the deal and ordered a 6-speed manual this time too. :) The dealer was instrumental in this whole process as we have a great and long term relationship with the service manager. In summary, Volvo did the right thing, and I was very impressed with them. My wife loves the 6-speed since it is so much faster than the auto (i.e. 0-60mph in 5.8 versus 7.5) -- I was with her a couple of weeks ago when she spanked a shocked 928S4. :haha:

Chuck
 

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Super Jim!

If you have the option, definitely go for the completely new engine at those most favourable terms.

It is interesting that there recently were two bearing failures on cylinder eight on two M5s in Helsingborg, Sweden. Similair mileage as your car, but 1999 production dates.

As a benefit to everyone, try to find out what you can about what caused the failure.

What is even better than having a great lawyer?
To be The Great Lawyer!

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
UPDATE: BMWNA is Replacing the Engine!!

I heard from my Service Manager this afternoon. BMWNA recommended replacing the engine. :thumbsup:

I am very happy with how this is being resolved by my dealership amd BMWNA. Their treatment of me really validates my brand loyalty. :D

The new engine should be at the dealership Tuesday, and I should be back behind the wheel by the end of next week or early the following week.

The only downside is that I had to cancel my participation in a local BMWCCA DE event on April 30th, because I will still be with the engine break-in period.
 

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CSBM5 said:
Dave,

I just went through a major issue with Volvo and our 2004 V70R. After it passed lemon law requirements, they stepped up and offered a too good to be true deal to get a new 2005 model (about $4k better than the lemon law would have provided!). We jumped on the deal and ordered a 6-speed manual this time too. :) The dealer was instrumental in this whole process as we have a great and long term relationship with the service manager. In summary, Volvo did the right thing, and I was very impressed with them. My wife loves the 6-speed since it is so much faster than the auto (i.e. 0-60mph in 5.8 versus 7.5) -- I was with her a couple of weeks ago when she spanked a shocked 928S4. :haha:

Chuck
Hey, so what did happen to your 04' V7R? I have a 02' XC70 which currently have a leak from the turbo, which my dealer told me it was just engine oil overfill which caused oil to leak from the turbo. But, I believe is untrue because I been workin on Volvos for 4 months as my apprenticeship. any ideas if the turbo is warped? And do you recommend to leave the engine at idle before engine off to let hot oil out of the turbo? sorry about the offtopic.
 

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You really only need to be concerned with idling for a minute or so to help cool the turbo housing if you have really just been romping on it real hard. The 04 R was full of issues: stranded my wife on side of road with a dead fuel pump, had awful surging issues they couldn't fix, then it went into limp mode and they tried for weeks to troubleshoot to no avail. After it passed 20 business days in the shop out of service, lemon law was hanging over their head.
 

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Re: UPDATE: BMWNA is Replacing the Engine!!

JFB said:
I heard from my Service Manager this afternoon. BMWNA recommended replacing the engine. :thumbsup:

I am very happy with how this is being resolved by my dealership amd BMWNA. Their treatment of me really validates my brand loyalty. :D

The new engine should be at the dealership Tuesday, and I should be back behind the wheel by the end of next week or early the following week.

The only downside is that I had to cancel my participation in a local BMWCCA DE event on April 30th, because I will still be with the engine break-in period.
AWESOME Jim

Now that's the way a dealer and manufacture should stand behind their product. Any engineer worth his salt would have come to the same conclusion. Cost too much to rip it down and rebuild it at the dealer. They could give you a new engine take the core back find the problem AT THE FACTORY, fix it, rebuild it, and sell it to the next guy who has a problem. Sounds only logical to me. (IMO)

I glad it worked out in your favor. :M5thumbs: :M5thumbs:
Joe
 
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