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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Everyone,

I met up with some fellow E34 owners a couple of years ago in BC and one guy had a 535i turbo with water methanol injection installed (he also had an air to water intercooler setup - really nicely done). I was going over the pictures from that meet today and it got me thinking about changing out my intercooler for an air to water setup, and maybe entertaining a water methanol injection setup. I was just wondering if any of you have thought of this for your BTs, or know anyone who has run it on any other vehicle.

From my limited research, it sounds as though it is a very positive addition to a forced induciton vehicle. I know my BT gets really hot when it is working, so dropping the IATs may not be such a bad thing (as well as improving the octane rating of the blend going into the combustion chamber). I have read that you can play with the timing to achieve more pwoer out of the car but that would result in needing to get the ECU remapped. I am just thinking of it purely as an addition, for now.

Any thoughts or opinions on this at all?

Cheers,

Rob
 

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How much money will you spend on mesuring Instruments? You would need EGT, AirFlow, several Air Temps, how will develop the Air/Water Cooler? Do you kow the flow neede for this? Who can read and interpret all these informations? Loggins System needed as well. How big should the water radiator be in the front? What Water pump would you use? What do you expect from the changes?

So it it worth to spend around 5 to 10k for this on a BT?

Just some things that came to my mind, you propably should think of.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The air to water intercooler setup is really straight forward. You're just changing the medium in which the inducted air is cooled. Here is a picture of the air to water intercooler setup on the 535i turbo I was talking about.


The thing to consider with the air to water setup is the CFM of the air being moved through it. There are varying sizes and designs of intercoolers depending on what you are designing for. I calculated the CFM of the stock Biturbo to be about 600 CFM at peak RPM. In putting together the various components for the kit, I estimate it will be about $500 for all the components (intercooler, radiator, pump, hoses, clamps).

If you look carefully at the picture, just to the right of the BMW emblem on the intake manifold, you can see an orange injector. They plumbed in an injector per intake runner for the methanol injection. Dirk, I agree on the gauges etc for the methanol injection, if I was going to take it to the point of altering the mapping and timing. My initial intention would be to install the injeciton and get the system working smoothly and consistently. There is no harm in adding the injection without altering mapping and timing, you just don't realize the full potential of it is all. Should the day come that I want to alter the mapping, the guys who did the 535i turbo (Miller Performance) have successfully done this. In speaking with them they said that, not unlike their 535i turbo, that they could tune the Biturbo for methanol injeciton as well. Methanol kits run about $500 - $1000.
 

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The air to water intercooler setup is really straight forward. You're just changing the medium in which the inducted air is cooled. Here is a picture of the air to water intercooler setup on the 535i turbo I was talking about.


The thing to consider with the air to water setup is the CFM of the air being moved through it. There are varying sizes and designs of intercoolers depending on what you are designing for. I calculated the CFM of the stock Biturbo to be about 600 CFM at peak RPM. In putting together the various components for the kit, I estimate it will be about $500 for all the components (intercooler, radiator, pump, hoses, clamps).

If you look carefully at the picture, just to the right of the BMW emblem on the intake manifold, you can see an orange injector. They plumbed in an injector per intake runner for the methanol injection. Dirk, I agree on the gauges etc for the methanol injection, if I was going to take it to the point of altering the mapping and timing. My initial intention would be to install the injeciton and get the system working smoothly and consistently. There is no harm in adding the injection without altering mapping and timing, you just don't realize the full potential of it is all. Should the day come that I want to alter the mapping, the guys who did the 535i turbo (Miller Performance) have successfully done this. In speaking with them they said that, not unlike their 535i turbo, that they could tune the Biturbo for methanol injeciton as well. Methanol kits run about $500 - $1000.
i have to laugh at some things people say but any way go for it you will be pleased with results i know of one guy who has a similar set up on his bt... havent seen him for a while hes in latvia or lithunia one of the two.. corjan knows him better than me... will see if i can get hold of him his name is dimitri i think... complete looney and does crazy things with his cars... was running over 900nm on his bt (supposedly) but hey it pulled 25 car lengths on me by the time we hit 4th gear i couldnt get near him and my bt aint no slouch....and his car was running cool after the run
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Rojer. Defintely going to proceed with the air to water intercooler this summer and then move onto the meth after. That other BT you mentioned sounds impressive. When I spoke to the Miller guys about the methanol injection on the BT, they said it could likely be tuned to about 425hp (based on the economy of scale that they reached with their 535i turbo). They have a dyno at their shop so if I did get it tuned for methanol injeciton, I would get a run done and post the results. Won't likely be anytime soon though.
 

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Thanks Rojer. Defintely going to proceed with the air to water intercooler this summer and then move onto the meth after. That other BT you mentioned sounds impressive. When I spoke to the Miller guys about the methanol injection on the BT, they said it could likely be tuned to about 425hp (based on the economy of scale that they reached with their 535i turbo). They have a dyno at their shop so if I did get it tuned for methanol injeciton, I would get a run done and post the results. Won't likely be anytime soon though.
hope it all goes well.. these miller guys work looks good and neatcherrsagai
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Cheers, I appreciate it!:cheers:

I'll update the thread as I get along
 

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just my opinion but Alpina cars are quite rare and the B10 BT is one of the most famous: only 507 B10 BT and already not all of them are still alive.

Is there not a rather high risk to blow the engine by doing such a modification ? not necessarily while doing the modification but within 5, 10 or 20,000 kms? From 360 to 425 HP is quite a gain ...'only' $ 1,500 to get it done? That sounds 'too good to be true'....

I am not familiar with the BT engine however I suppose that it has been 'reworked' by alpina, most likely piston and head. Would it not be easier and safer for this rare Alpina to use a 535i or at least a 535i engine as a cheaper base to start from?
 

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Subaru STI's used to spray water onto the intercooler under big throttle conditions - latent heat transfer through evaporation.....

Aquamist are the Water Injection people and I know of two turbo charged cars that have used it, but whether they would have gone bang had it not been fitted I couldn't say. Neat idea though.

Cheers,

Dave.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
The thing about installing this is you have to be smart about it. Having failsafes in place, especially when you are going down the road of adjusting your timing, boost and fuel mapping, are imperative (in my opinion). As Dave said, Aquamist is one of THE setups to get, especially with their HSF-6 kit. The better made kits have a failsafe in place for a multitude of situations that could trigger a problem - low fluid, low voltage, etc. The failsafe is usually designed to immediately return the car to stock/'pre injection' conditions. There are many kits on the market that don't have a failsafe built in and that is playing russian roulette with their motor, IMHO.
 

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aquamist is the kit i have been looking at for a few years now and will be my choice when i can be bothered..there are a few turbo bmws running this all with good results
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Perrin Performance is another one - they worked closely with Aquamist to develop theirs and their PWI-2 is compatable with the DDS3 failsafe setup.
 
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