BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

Browsing this forum has me a bit paranoid about bearing failure. I have a 2008 M5 with 46k miles and I do not daily drive it, and I always let it warm up to around 210 before I get on it. Sadly, I'm the third owner and I have no idea how the prior owners treated it... I decided to be proactive and send out an oil sample to Blackstone. I'm still waiting for the results to come, and they have yet to charge my credit card. I also had the dealer save my filter, and i can say it was very clean with just oil and no metal that was visable...

I do have some questions:

1) Does anyone know of a shop in the Philly area that has experience changing out the bearings? I'd like a place that will warranty their work...

I'd like to change them out soon for peace of mind... I'm guessing the 703 newer bearings are what I'd go with...

2) I recall reading something about "changing the bearings is not enough because of metal expanding in the rod and crank". Is this true? Or could I expect the new bearings to last at least 40-50k miles?

3) Regarding the oil sample... I recall reading about members that have spun bearings after a golden blackstone report. Blackstone stated that the damage must have been done in the past. I dont understand how the prior wear to the underlying layers in the bearing would not cause elevated levels of copper, and other metals in the oil... Anyone have experience with this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Sub to this- Bimmerwerks in West Chester Pa have a good rep. I have 39k on my car, blackstone clean, thinking about this at 50k-ish too... Chronic forums gets ya like that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks! i just shot them an email...

I'm more than willing to pay the 2k or whatever for peace of mind, but I want a shop that will stand by their work. If I pay them to create a problem because of shoddy work, well yeah... I'll probably go insane...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Any luck? I also would like to check them out. I am in Ft Washington pa if you want to meet up sometime.
I had an email back from Bimmeworks a week or two ago and they said they did not know bearings are a problem on the s85. They also have never changed them on the motor. They requested my VIN for a quote and never got back to me.

I'm near New Hope PA... Lots of great driving roads and breweries if you ever want to come by.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I really recommend this. I cannot say it enough!:cheers:
Yeah, I've seen enough threads to where I should be proactive. I sent my oil to blackstone for analysis and my results came back. I had 9PPM copper and 11PPM lead, with no fuel, oil, good dissolvables, etc. The thing is, I had no idea what kind of oil was in the car, and i'm pretty sure it went 7-8k miles between the change. I purcahsed the car at a high end indy dealer. When I called, they told me they used Mobil 1 oil, but couldnt tell me what kind. I saw that mobil one does not offer 10w60 in the USA. I'm wondering if the oil used for the 8k miles during my first year of ownership contributed to my higher than usual numbers.

I can attach my report today if you want to see it.

Question, what was up with your comments about bearings being a meaningless change without changing the rods? Something about them expanding or contracting and affecting the clearences. Is this proven? I'm not going to open my engine for bearings unless I'm sure they'll last for 50k miles or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
689 Posts
OP....calling the thread "paranoia" is the perfect term. So many folks on here with under 50k on their odometers considering or being "pro-active" with changing their rod bearings seems somewhat comical and ridiculous to me. I can see this type of paranoia, I guess, from folks who don't let their cars fully warm up before flogging, who don't change the oil with the factory recommend oil (10W60) every 7500 miles, and who don't do all of the other recommended maintenance such as changing the other fluids when recommended. But if you take care of your M5, you shouldn't have to worry about this at such early mileage.

People who are spinning their bearings "usually" have a lot more miles on their cars than 50k, or have beat the living hell out of them. For me, I'm not going to waste my hard earned money by swapping out the bearings or vanos line. If I were to have that kind of failure, then I'll rely on my warranty to pay for the repairs. But since my car has been fully maintained since new and I have all service records, I feel that I have absolutely nothing to worry about.

For you guys who buy used high mileage M5's without a full service history and have no warranty, I guess I can see why you might be paranoid after reading so many bearing threads lately, since that seems to be the new flavor of the year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
OP....calling the thread "paranoia" is the perfect term. So many folks on here with under 50k on their odometers considering or being "pro-active" with changing their rod bearings seems somewhat comical and ridiculous to me. I can see this type of paranoia, I guess, from folks who don't let their cars fully warm up before flogging, who don't change the oil with the factory recommend oil (10W60) every 7500 miles, and who don't do all of the other recommended maintenance such as changing the other fluids when recommended. But if you take care of your M5, you shouldn't have to worry about this at such early mileage.

People who are spinning their bearings "usually" have a lot more miles on their cars than 50k, or have beat the living hell out of them. For me, I'm not going to waste my hard earned money by swapping out the bearings or vanos line. If I were to have that kind of failure, then I'll rely on my warranty to pay for the repairs. But since my car has been fully maintained since new and I have all service records, I feel that I have absolutely nothing to worry about.

For you guys who buy used high mileage M5's without a full service history and have no warranty, I guess I can see why you might be paranoid after reading so many bearing threads lately, since that seems to be the new flavor of the year.

Well I am the third owner so I cant speak to how the car was treated before I owned it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
OP....calling the thread "paranoia" is the perfect term. So many folks on here with under 50k on their odometers considering or being "pro-active" with changing their rod bearings seems somewhat comical and ridiculous to me. I can see this type of paranoia, I guess, from folks who don't let their cars fully warm up before flogging, who don't change the oil with the factory recommend oil (10W60) every 7500 miles, and who don't do all of the other recommended maintenance such as changing the other fluids when recommended. But if you take care of your M5, you shouldn't have to worry about this at such early mileage.

People who are spinning their bearings "usually" have a lot more miles on their cars than 50k, or have beat the living hell out of them. For me, I'm not going to waste my hard earned money by swapping out the bearings or vanos line. If I were to have that kind of failure, then I'll rely on my warranty to pay for the repairs. But since my car has been fully maintained since new and I have all service records, I feel that I have absolutely nothing to worry about.

For you guys who buy used high mileage M5's without a full service history and have no warranty, I guess I can see why you might be paranoid after reading so many bearing threads lately, since that seems to be the new flavor of the year.
I really didn't want this to be my first post but I can't help but respond to this. I'm not sure how closely you have followed this issue but from what I have read I can't begin to call anyone paranoid for being proactive on this. We have seen pictures of many different rod bearings removed from engines from 50K on up and some with full service history and no abuse. I have not seen ONE bearing picture that looked like a normal used bearing.

I have been building and rebuilding performance engines for the better part of my life and these bearings don't show normal "lack of wear". A good used rod bearing will have a polished look to its outermost layer. Any time you are breaking into the 2nd of 3rd layer there is something wrong. I have serviced many 16K RPM motorcycle race engines that after a full racing season looked like they could be used for another season. Clearly there is something going on with these engines that can't be blamed on oil changes and driving habits. Have you read Troy's posts?

I understand not wanting to spend the money but the consequences of not catching a bearing failure are far more costly. I have 55K on my 2008 and I'm going to change mine sometime in the next 4 months. It's not as big a cost for me because thankfully I can do the labor myself. If I had to pay for parts and labor I would not be happy, but I would definitely not consider myself paranoid if I did shell out the money for a shop to do the work. Whether to proactively replace our rod bearings is a question each of us needs to answer for other selves, but please don't call anyone paranoid for their decision.

Thanks for letting me vent,

Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
689 Posts
Well I am the third owner so I cant speak to how the car was treated before I owned it.
You don't have any service records for the car? Where did you buy it? Was it dealer serviced? How many miles on it when you purchased it? Did you purchase a warranty?

Buying one of these cars blindly without any knowledge of the service history can potentially be catastrophic to your wallet, especially without a warranty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
259 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
You don't have any service records for the car? Where did you buy it? Was it dealer serviced? How many miles on it when you purchased it? Did you purchase a warranty?

Buying one of these cars blindly without any knowledge of the service history can potentially be catastrophic to your wallet, especially without a warranty.

I purchased the car with 39k miles CPO at a high end indy car dealer. The prior owner traded it in towards a Maserati.

The car was dealer serviced by the prior owner in CT, but I do know have any history on the first owner.

No option to buy a warranty... I've emailed my local BMW, but have not had a response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
I don't want to keep going back and forth on this particular issue so this will be my last reply to your specific post.

The point is that NONE of the bearing pictures ever removed from an S85 look like a used bearing should look. Ask Troy, he puts new bearings in every engine he resells, and to my knowledge he has never removed a good looking set of bearings from any S85. Even changing your oil at 15K miles, not fully warming up your engine and hot rodding it every day should not cause this type of failure. You should be able to pull apart a properly designed engine with 150-200K miles on it that has had average maintenance and not see this type of wear. The M54 out of my daily driver was torn down at 140K to do performance work on it and the bearings looked like new, and I have never performed the proper maintenance on that car.

If a 16K rpm race engine that gets one sighting lap to warm up the engine then goes to wide open throttle at 16K rpm doesn't destory bearings, and poorly maintained daily driver with 140K miles doesn't destroy bearings, why should the S85?

Just my two cents... not trying to start an argument.

Gary
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
689 Posts
I purchased the car with 39k miles CPO at a high end indy car dealer. The prior owner traded it in towards a Maserati.

The car was dealer serviced by the prior owner in CT, but I do know have any history on the first owner.

No option to buy a warranty... I've emailed my local BMW, but have not had a response.
If it's CPO, then it should already have a warranty. Otherwise it wouldn't be CPO. Check your paperwork from when you purchased it and call the dealer where you got the car to see for sure.

If you can find out what dealer serviced the car for the 2nd owner, you can likely get a full service history based on that ownership. Many times, service by dealers and indys are entered into the Carfax data base, so you might be able to find some prior history that way.

If your car really isn't CPO and doesn't have a warranty, then I suggest that you investigate extended warranties with your local credit unions. Many of them offer great exclusionary warranties at a small fraction of the price that most board members here have been paying for theirs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
794 Posts
If I'm not mistaken the S85 engine cost about $15K used so it doesn't make sense for any E60 M5s to put off putting in new rod bearings as a preventative maintenance. Putting in new rod bearings cost about $2-3K from an Indy and let's assume you do this every 50K miles/2 years as preventative care maintenance it's not a really big deal.

You own a V10 which not only performs like an exotic car but sounds the part too. Don't put too much thought into it and just have it done already considering you don't know how previous owners maintained/drove the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
689 Posts
I don't want to keep going back and forth on this particular issue so this will be my last reply to your specific post.

The point is that NONE of the bearing pictures ever removed from an S85 look like a used bearing should look. Ask Troy, he puts new bearings in every engine he resells, and to my knowledge he has never removed a good looking set of bearings from any S85. Even changing your oil at 15K miles, not fully warming up your engine and hot rodding it every day should not cause this type of failure. You should be able to pull apart a properly designed engine with 150-200K miles on it that has had average maintenance and not see this type of wear. The M54 out of my daily driver was torn down at 140K to do performance work on it and the bearings looked like new, and I have never performed the proper maintenance on that car.

If a 16K rpm race engine that gets one sighting lap to warm up the engine then goes to wide open throttle at 16K rpm doesn't destory bearings, and poorly maintained daily driver with 140K miles doesn't destroy bearings, why should the S85?

Just my two cents... not trying to start an argument.

Gary

I'm not sure exactly who you're arguing with here. We all know that the bearings in the S85 engines don't stay all shiny and glimmering, perhaps even after the very first crank of the engine. These engines were built with extremely tight clearances and are very similar to the V10 engines in the Lambo Gallardo....except ours don't usually require a full rebuild after 20-30k miles. I guess German engineers are better than Italian engineers. ;)

If people are going to be so paranoid, why not open up your wallet and change the bearings every 20k miles? How about every 10k miles? How about at every oil change? My point is that this paranoia is going too far. And if you're really that paranoid, then perhaps you should sell or trade the car in on a Honda. Bearings that look a little bit worn don't always lead to failure. In fact, you might be able to go another 100k+ miles on some of those bearings that folks think need changing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
There is a good thread on the forum with mileage and year for rod bearing failure. It seemed 60k-75k was common, among the failures. I plan on owning the car for a long time, so I will do it ~50k. Bought privately, 4th owner, 37k miles...
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top