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Discussion Starter #61
Yes positive (had O2 sensor unplugged , so that explains the O2 sensor codes )



One thing , the solenoids are just on/off right? open or closed

I believe pin 4 is the 12v to exhaust dump solenoid and 5 is ground.
If i disconnect the vanos boards and probe pin 4 and rev the motor a little , then i should see 12volts on right? or is it maybe pulsating?
 

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Discussion Starter #62 (Edited)
Today i measured pin 4 on bank 1 , which i believe is the signal to open the solenoid .... result for bank 1 is 0 Volts

Did the same on bank 2 but measured pin 6 , i think that is the signal to open the outlet , results for bank 2 are 4-5 volts at idle and increases as i rev it up



If anyone could go out to their garage and disconnect their bank 1 vanos and measure the pin 4 voltage at idle that would be greatly appreciated :)
 

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Today i measured pin 4 on bank 1 , which i believe is the signal to open the solenoid .... result for bank 1 is 0 Volts

Did the same on bank 2 but measured pin 6 , i think that is the signal to open the outlet , results for bank 2 are 4-5 volts at idle and increases as i rev it up



If anyone could go out to their garage and disconnect their bank 1 vanos and measure the pin 4 voltage at idle that would be greatly appreciated :)
You are comparing apples to oranges. On the wiring diagram the solenoids are labelled aus (exhaust) or ein (inlet) and either F or S which I don't know what those stand for but have to do with advance or retard. So you need to compare pin 4 on bank 1 with pin 3 on bank 2, then test pin 6 on bank 1 and compare to pin 1 on bank 2.
Pin 6 bank 2 which you tested is for one of the intake solenoids.

The solenoids are physically either open or closed but the DME sends PWM voltage to them.
 

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You are doing this wrong. Don't unplug, stick the probe in the back of the plug or pierce the wire with a pin. They are fed with 12v but it is a PWM or pulse. Your meter will see 5v on average but it will vary ~4-7v. you need to test both solenoids because they often both operate at the same time. Compare your reads to the other bank but the same noid to the same noid as X said. If your cam is at low degrees then you need to test the inlet solenoids to see if they are letting oil in first.
So bank 1 pin 4 gets compared to bank 2 pin 3.
Then bank 1 pin 6 gets compared to bank 2 pin 1.
Use this diagram it is much clearer than the WDS diagram. This advanced retard thing they keep referring too is dumb. Think of it as inlet and outlet it is much easier to get your head around.
Vanos Board Schematic_V3.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #65 (Edited)
Finally got the obd cable , was able to install INPA but not Dis always got Error 200.159 , anyone know's why?

Anyway i posted the sceenshots from inpa


I meassured the vanos pins , with it unplugged and meassured the engine side , can't see any diffrence if i back probe it or just disconnect.

All results are at Idle

Bank 1 PIN 4 = 1.4volts PIN 6 = 0.62volts

Bank 2 PIN 3 = 0.086volts PIN 1 = 0.086volts





 

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So the voltages on corresponding bank pins are different and camshaft angle is different. Plus you have a code telling you there is a broken wire. Pin 6 is reading lower voltage than all the rest. You need to inspect the connectors at both ends. It will be a black wire with yellow stripe. Look for a break or kink in the wire and corrosion at the connectors.
 

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Now you have me totally confused. I am not seeing any exhaust Vanos codes although I do see some intake codes and I see that INPA has two different readings for the position of the cams. Those BTW are exhaust as INPA does not show the intakes.
Although the voltages look totally wrong to me it depends on your meter because the Volts are really 12v but pulsed, on my meter I see much higher voltages but scaled they would be about the same.

First you need to understand how the DME moves the piston when it wants to change the valve timing. It appears to open both inlet and outlet noids at the same time but at different bandwidths. To you the difference in bandwidth will show as different voltages. Although the 1.4v for the inlet makes no sense to me half that voltage for the outlet would be normal.
Not sure why you see any volts on Bank two because the DME is not adjusting the valve timing, but It could be a meter thing not sure. The vanos solenoids are only fed volts when the DME wants to move the timing. Under load while going through the gears you may see constant voltages because the rate of exhaust returned would always be changing, but at a constant load the EGR/Vanos is very stable.

So what I am seeing is the DME is trying to move the exhaust timing on bank 1 but it is not moving. We knew that though.

I just looked at my meter and I have a setting for ECU volts that might be why I see different volts than you. My meter is a Automotive meter and that scale may have a different circuit for reading pulses.

As I write I think I might be understanding the codes I am seeing but I am still a little puzzled. I assume you had some stuff unplugged? I still don't see why we don't have a code for the intake advanced valve or any codes for the exhaust, might be because you have the meter plugged into them but.... I have no clue.
This is the reason you back probe and don't unplug things. Because the signal is not always on to the noids if they are not plugged in then you will always have the DME trying to move the timing. Which brings me to... If you unplug bank 2 and start the car you should see similar volts as you are reading on bank 1 because the DME should be trying to move the timing because the timing should fall back to 0.60 when the engine is shut off.

Also where are you hooking the ground for your meter when doing these tests? You should try the pin on the board and another location like the body and confirm the readings are the exact same.
 

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I agree, you should have things connected when measuring. The handheld DTC device shows an exhaust code and the INPA codes are intake. Surely INPA won't report an intake code when it is really an exhaust code. You said the B9 code remained after you switched boards to the other banks. Did you perhaps not clear codes and were seeing the old code? Because with code switching from exhaust to intake that has to be a board electrical issue like a broken wire, cold solder joint, or a fried MELF (diode).
 

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Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
Don't mind the INPA results , turned out that i pinched a wire on the inlet solenoid and that explains the error (all fixed now)

Still have the bank 1 B9 exhaust code tho.

One thing that i have noticed is that when over i take the vanos cover off , the solenoid marked as red in the picture(exhaust outlet) , always "pops" out , like that is has alot of pressure behind it, No other solenoid does this


Does that indicate anything ?
I belive that confirms that the outlet solenoid isnt opening and draining to sump , but why that solenoid dosen't open :mad:
 

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That is a good clue.

As you say, too much oil pressure overwhelming the o-rings for that solenoid.. I know a member on here 68FB had a failing vanos oil pressure regulator. Maybe your regulator is supplying way more than 1500psi, but is odd that the one solenoid is affected.

Does this solenoid perform like the others when you activate it? A clean and healthy solenoid should shoot cleaning solvent up during the cleaning process.

I notice you kept the gauze filters on, are they still in tact? If not then that solenoid maybe partially blocked? I would clean that offending solenoid thoroughly to be sure it's working properly. In rare cases they can't be fixed by the documented cleaning process though.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
The solenoid is fine , new o-rings and clean. Also i have switched boards and still the same error.

Also i removed the filters a long time ago , this is just a picture of the beisan website :)
 

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You might have a clogged outlet passage inside the VANOS unit itself. Have never heard of this problem but it would fit
all of your symptoms. Did you ever get DIS working? VANOS test would be very informative for your problem.

Vanos cross section 5 drg.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #73 (Edited)
When i changed the spring plates i cleaned all vanos passage and nothing was clogged

Im starting to think that the dme dosent send a signal to open the dump noid :(

And no never got dis working :/ will try again tomorrow to get it working, is there anything specific that i should do when inside Dis execpt the vanos test?
 

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I think this is the most likely thing. There is a thread and it is as long as this one. Even though the owner thought he had everything clean when he finally switched the compete unit side for side the code moved. He then applied compressed air to the holes in the piston bore and learned that one of the passages was plugged.
 

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I think this is the most likely thing. There is a thread and it is as long as this one. Even though the owner thought he had everything clean when he finally switched the compete unit side for side the code moved. He then applied compressed air to the holes in the piston bore and learned that one of the passages was plugged.
I would think that if you're going to the trouble of removing the vanos units for servicing you would make 100% sure that all passages are cleaned. OP - How did you verify the passages are clean and not blocked? Cleaning with brake cleaner? DIS Vanos tests should provide some more clues.
 

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Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
I just blew compressed air in all the ports.

Maybe switching the vanos units is the next step i guess

Can i take out my solenoids , and open the piston cover and blow air through the exhaust piston port , then there should be air blowing from one of the ports at the dump solenoid right?

But still considering the pressure that always builds up behind the exhaust dump solenoid causing it to "pop" out everytime i remove the covers , that makes me think that the oil is getting to the noid from the piston bores but not opeing and returing it to the pan
 

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Correct, oil is getting from the piston chamber to the noid but can't get past the noid. So either the noid is clogged or the port from the noid to the timing cover is clogged. Since you said you switched board side for side and the code stayed the same that would say the noid is good.
I would double and triple blast the exit port from the noid chamber with high psi compressed air. If that doesn't work it might be time to switch units side for side. If you do that, check that dump port again in the VANOS unit and also check the corresponding oil gallery in the timing cover.
 

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the port from the noid to the timing cover is clogged
It is that. what happens it the pressure equalizes thru the whole system so that there is no pressure differential so the piston does not move. If a noid is plugged or leaks then the piston will likely move, maybe wrong but moves because there is some pressure differential at some point.

I thought we already covered this 30 posts ago? Don't have the time to re read the thread. Besides that, some of the other tests, like switching the plugs showed some flow. This likely will turn out to be a brand new failure never seen, but it is certainly worth checking because I think the only thing to do now is switch the whole units side for side which is a lot of work.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
Does anyone know which port is the one that i should be focusing on ?
To me it seems that there are total of 3 ports in the outlet solenoid seat , one port on the "outer" seat and two in the "inner" seat

To me it's seem's that the outlet oil from the intake solenoid and the outlet oil for the exhaust solenoid share the same port that goes to the pan right? if that's the case then i don't think that the port from the vanos to upper timing cover is plugged?

Been studying this picture
 
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