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Discussion Starter #21
manualshifter: Thanks ! just read your thread and i will go out and check all grounds and such


If i cant find any faults in the wiring il guess i will swap the vanos units (not just the boards) side to side and see if the ticking noise and error code will move with it to bank 2
 

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You can't swap the VANOS units side for side. They are mirror image. But you can refurb them once they are out.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
According to Beisan procedure they are

"Note: Vanos units are same and interchangeable, but it’s best practice to maintain vanos to engine head association. Vanos is originally oriented with vanos sticker to bottom."
 

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Vanos unit are the same. The orientation of the solenoids in the vanos is different between left and right which is why they have different part numbers.
 

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They did the same with the pistons. Claiming they were different in each bank. We now know that is untrue, but if you have different pistons you would also need different vanos units.
 

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Discussion Starter #27 (Edited)
Update : I'm 90 % sure that the wiring is ok after spending about 4 hours looking through everything , so i decided to pull the vanos bank 1 unit off.

Intake timing is spot on and the piston sit flush with the end of the bore, when i try to put the exhaust to inital timing it lands on a hard stop and the timing mark is off by a little and the piston is about 14mm inside the bore (see pictures)
So two thing could be happening i think ,, one way is that the timing on the exhaust is off (could that be the source of the code and the ticking?) OR the splines are getting jammed or stuck so i cant retard it all
the way

Is it right that i cant get the vanos unit off (with out disturbing timing) unless i get the piston all the way flush to allow movement for the 7mm and 10 mm keys?


The problem is almost identical as in this thread
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-discussion/479226-help-bought-another-m5-vanos-bank-1-issues-ticking-sound-idle.html



 

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Discussion Starter #28
Was finally able to remove the vanos unit (the whole unit with splines) , i was able to loosen the 3 hubolts and then i could but the exhaust camshaft to it's initial postion

Just order the S62 Vanos seal repair kit , and Rattle kit from Beisan along with all new solenoid O-rings , hoping that can solve my problem , either way it's gonna be a calm of mind knowing that everything in the vanos department is 100 % , doing valve cover gasket and changing the 2 intake cps aswell since i already renewed the exhaust earlier

I'm thinking the problem is somewhere in the spring plates (as described in the thread i noted before)

But one think , while i did the vanos removal with locking cams etc , i only focused on bank 1 and didn't even open the bank 2 , but now i'm obviously gonna be removing the vanos bank 2 unit to upgrade the plates.
How do i go about this when i have locked the bank 1 cams ?

Must i remove the cam locking pins and turn the engine to TDC overlap , loosen the 3 hubolts on bank 2, turn it to TDC ign , lock both cam on bank 1 & 2 , then go on and loosening the rest of the bolts and removing bank 2 unit?
 

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You shouldn't have to loosen the hub bolts to remove the vanos. You just need to jiggle the cam with the spanner.
You don't need to unlock the cams (on the side that you have already removed the vanos) to remove the vanos on the other side.
You also don't need to rotate the engine.
 

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Yep, just wiggle the cams with spanner and the vanos gears should spit out. Loosening the 3 accessible cam hub bolts per cam helps with this. Back them off quite a bit, not just a 1/4 turn.

Once you have done the spring plates on both banks it is absolutely critical you re-insert the vanos gears in to the hubs correctly. If you haven't already, search for 'Spring plate renewal' on here and follow the re-installation steps to the letter.

Check your static cam timing with the piston covers installed or your timing will be off.
 

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Discussion Starter #31 (Edited)
Yes i know about the install having it all the the way clockwise and first available tooth etc

If i can take it out without loosening all the hub bolts what was the purpose of looseing them as seen in all the guides and diy , all say turn to overlap , slacken 3 bolts , turn to ign and slacken the rest, them spit out the gears

One thing i was thinking about , the hub bolts have to be tighten to 10NM , but there is no way to get a torque wrench on them ?
 

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That procedure sounds like for cam timing adjustment.

Use a crows foot extension on your torque wrench or just practice torquing a bolt to 10nm so you memorise how much pressure to apply.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
So just got my o rings and everything
One thing i have been thinking about is the torque on the hub bolts

Cant i put the splines in the hubs and torque them before i put the upper timing cover on?
That would allow me to get the right torque them i would use the 7mm and 10mm method when i put the vanos unit on?
 

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an easier way is to just torque them up, mark them then tighten them to the marked positions if u needed to re-adjust cam timing.

I never bothered torquing. I checked them after 6,000kms. None were loose.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
In the middle of assemble it

One thing i was wondering about , is when you are putting the gears into the hub and engaging the first tooth
How much do you need to turn the hub counter clockwise to engage? I was trying last night and i always had to turn it a bit maybe 6-7 mm before it would engage, i thought you only had to turn it slighty then the gears would mash up
 

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Should be less than that. I practiced the engagement procedure with the vanos spline and hub unit out of the car on the bench. First available set of teeth and it will slide in. Maybe turn the splines and re-engage them in to the hub so you get the first available tooth.
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Finally had the time to work on the M5 , put it all back to together accordin to jamiepeers Spring plate renewal thread
Everything went fine but after i tightend the hub bolts , i couldn't move the cams back and forth to advance and retard , they were just stuck i used alot of force to try to brake them free

I did change the upper timing chain tensioners aswell
 

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Finally had the time to work on the M5 , put it all back to together accordin to jamiepeers Spring plate renewal thread
Everything went fine but after i tightend the hub bolts , i couldn't move the cams back and forth to advance and retard , they were just stuck i used alot of force to try to brake them free

I did change the upper timing chain tensioners aswell


Once you tighten down all six Vanos hub bolts on each cam, you will not be able to advance and retard the cams fully by hand. If you could, the vanos springs wouldn't be doing their job. In my experience, at that point, all one can do is "wiggle" the cams with a 27mm crescent.


--Peter
 
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