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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Tin, If you check out this thread, http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46927
you'll see the debate over how long it should take to drop in another set of cams into our car. Dinan claims it could take MAGA-HOURS worth of labor time to do such a job. That's a sick thought! :eek:
Can you find out just how long it took Kelleners to do your cam installation?
If you could contact them and simply ask them, how long or how many hours (approx) does such a job take to do?
Thank a lot and you'll be answering a question that numerous guys wish to know the answer!
Robert :M5thumbs:
 

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FAST 5 said:
Hi Tin, If you check out this thread, http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=46927
you'll see the debate over how long it should take to drop in another set of cams into our car. Dinan claims it could take MAGA-HOURS worth of labor time to do such a job. That's a sick thought! :eek:
Can you find out just how long it took Kelleners to do your cam installation?
If you could contact them and simply ask them, how long or how many hours (approx) does such a job take to do?
Thank a lot and you'll be answering a question that numerous guys wish to know the answer!
Robert :M5thumbs:
Hi Robert,

Sure no probs, they took 1.5 days labour for diagnostic work, take apart the top half of the engine, fit the new hydralic lifters and cams... (I needed new lifters, as the old ones were sticking,its a MY99) but it is generally recommended changing for new ones, when putting in the new cams.

You'll also need to factor in, ecu remapping, dyno testings, road testing etc.

hope this helps. :byebye:

Tin
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks RENN......... Thanks Tin..........

Hi Renn,
I will contact them to see what thyey have to say........................

Hey Tin,
Thanks for replying back to this thread. So are you saying its a day and a half worth of work to do the cams, or are you going to get the exact answer, just for the cams installation time???
TIA.
Robert :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
RennSportSC'dKellenersM5 said:
Robert

ask both Shadowman and also Joel at bavarian hyper sports how long it takes..

www.bavhypersports.com

Joel does ALOT of cam work on bmws...from e46m3's to our m5's

Renn,
Any chance you could be here (NY area) on 12/11/04 for the M5 meet ???
Would be great to meet you!
Robert
 

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no probs Rob..............

I've emailed them for an exact timeframe, will let you know when I get a reply.

Tin
 

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The issue regarding install time is whether or not grinding is required to create adequate clearance between the cam lobes and the head casting next to the lifter bores. Dinan specifies 0.040 inch clearance and indicates - based on experience - that "most" engines will require this grinding. One could probably get away with less clearance, but this is the recommendation. In which case it is recommended that the heads be removed from the engine to (1) keep grinding debris out of the engine, and (2) allow thorough cleaning when finished. It is further observed that the installer will be hours ahead, in the case where grinding is required, if the engine is first removed from the car. Your results may vary.

I will likely be involved in one or two S62 Dinan cam installs later in the year. I will be able to provide a first-hand report then.

Regards, Dick Roberts
 

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RRoberts said:
The issue regarding install time is whether or not grinding is required to create adequate clearance between the cam lobes and the head casting next to the lifter bores. Dinan specifies 0.040 inch clearance and indicates - based on experience - that "most" engines will require this grinding.
Dick
Dumb question time. If the cams are made for the S62, why is grinding necessary? It is not like there is a whole family of similar engines. Wouldn't the cams be sized just for this application? Thx
Regards,
Jerry (cam clueless in Florida)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
gsfent said:
Dick
Dumb question time. If the cams are made for the S62, why is grinding necessary? It is not like there is a whole family of similar engines. Wouldn't the cams be sized just for this application? Thx
Regards,
Jerry (cam clueless in Florida)
Excellent question Jerry.
 

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gsfent said:
Dick
Dumb question time. If the cams are made for the S62, why is grinding necessary? It is not like there is a whole family of similar engines. Wouldn't the cams be sized just for this application? Thx
Regards,
Jerry (cam clueless in Florida)
The Dinan cams evidently have more lift (lobes are "taller") than the stock cams. All the other dimensions (lobe spacing, location and size of bearing journals, timing marks, drive sprocket flanges, etc.) are the same as stock - so they are designed to "drop in" in thisd regard. The cam lift, duration and timing are what produces the power increase over stock, of course. The taller lobes come closer to the head surface as the cams turns in their journals (and move the valves), and in some (most?) cases either hit the aluminum head casting near where the hydraulic lifter/lash adjusters are located on top of the valves or come closer than Dinan thinks is prudent. I do not know whether the Dinan cams are different from the S62 Schrick cams (with reference to the urban legend that the Schrick cams were originally production candidates for the M5 - maybe this little clearance issue is why we got milder cams). I can tell you that I have had the Dinan cams in my hands, and there are no Schrick markings. I have also had the opportunity to examine a number of Schrick cams for other BMW engines over the years, and they are clearly marked, plus look a little different in manufacturing details than the Dinan S62 cams (but I would need to see Schrick cams for the S62 to be conclusive on this point).

We are trying to do at least one install this year, but need to get some race car projects out first.

Regards, Dick Roberts
 

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RRoberts said:
The Dinan cams evidently have more lift (lobes are "taller") than the stock cams. All the other dimensions (lobe spacing, location and size of bearing journals, timing marks, drive sprocket flanges, etc.) are the same as stock - so they are designed to "drop in" in thisd regard. The cam lift, duration and timing are what produces the power increase over stock, of course. The taller lobes come closer to the head surface as the cams turns in their journals (and move the valves), and in some (most?) cases either hit the aluminum head casting near where the hydraulic lifter/lash adjusters are located on top of the valves or come closer than Dinan thinks is prudent.
Dick
Thanks for your typically concise and thorough response. Since I assume Schrick would make more power the same way, i.e. more lift, then they should suffer from the same "deficiency" and also require grinding. In most other applications, Schrick is typically "plug and play" as much as possible for a cam swap. I would be VERY interested in your findings if you do a Schrick cam upgrade to an S62 to see if regrinding is an issue. It would also be interesting to see what gains are atributed to just the cam change, recognizing to maximize the gains other improvements are necessary.
Regards,
Jerry
 

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I have run many different cams in many different engines and I would only use cams machined from blanks, any regrinding not only affect the reduced base circle and associated issues with the hydsaulic lifters sitting taller in the machined carriers but very few remanufacturers surface harden cams properly........
 
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