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i do not believe they are carb approved. Only dinan's are.
They should not effect tailpipe emissions though, and you can't really see them....
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So, if I need a smog cert. it should be fine...? but if a cop pulls me over and wants to be a stickler, I could be ticketed, fined, my car tagged, and eventually have to remove them?
 

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adam28 said:
So, if I need a smog cert. it should be fine...? but if a cop pulls me over and wants to be a stickler, I could be ticketed, fined, my car tagged, and eventually have to remove them?
The cop would have no clue what to check for. You can't see the headers from under the hood and you wouldn't see them unless you put it on a rack. Don't let that be the deciding factor on putting on the headers. With out a doubt thats the best performance mod for the motor Ive done to my car.
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Boz
 

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adam28 said:
So, if I need a smog cert. it should be fine...? but if a cop pulls me over and wants to be a stickler, I could be ticketed, fined, my car tagged, and eventually have to remove them?

I wouldn't expect police to target an M5 to search for non carb approved mods... If that is a real concern, you should get the dinan headers! (or at least get one of dinan's CARB decals for the headers to stick under the hood).

Like Boz said, most cops do not have intimate knowledge of the M5, so they wouldn't really know what they're looking for.
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Good lookin' out guys. Just wanted to cover all my bases before deciding:M5thumbs: On another note, I already have a 3.45 diff and was speaking w/ a BMW Master tech., he mentioned that eventhough the headers add more HP, I wouldn't "feel" it as much as the gears? I know there has been tons of debate, but not really concerned about what the dyno says as compared to the butt-o-meter. I know Boz mentioned he liked it...do you $4000 like it?
 

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adam28 said:
Good lookin' out guys. Just wanted to cover all my bases before deciding:M5thumbs: On another note, I already have a 3.45 diff and was speaking w/ a BMW Master tech., he mentioned that eventhough the headers add more HP, I wouldn't "feel" it as much as the gears? I know there has been tons of debate, but not really concerned about what the dyno says as compared to the butt-o-meter. I know Boz mentioned he liked it...do you $4000 like it?
i'd certainly say i can feel the power from the headers as much as i feel the change from the 345 diff. Definately worth the $4k.
Mike
 

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adam28 said:
Good lookin' out guys. Just wanted to cover all my bases before deciding:M5thumbs: On another note, I already have a 3.45 diff and was speaking w/ a BMW Master tech., he mentioned that eventhough the headers add more HP, I wouldn't "feel" it as much as the gears? I know there has been tons of debate, but not really concerned about what the dyno says as compared to the butt-o-meter. I know Boz mentioned he liked it...do you $4000 like it?
adam28,

I agree with Mike....best bang for the buck mod...and I kept my rear end at the stock ratio (but changed the guts)...

Mark
 

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adam28 said:
Good lookin' out guys. Just wanted to cover all my bases before deciding:M5thumbs: On another note, I already have a 3.45 diff and was speaking w/ a BMW Master tech., he mentioned that eventhough the headers add more HP, I wouldn't "feel" it as much as the gears? I know there has been tons of debate, but not really concerned about what the dyno says as compared to the butt-o-meter. I know Boz mentioned he liked it...do you $4000 like it?
Adam
You will notice more of a difference adding the headers and powerchip than the diff. To do it over again I don't think I would do the diff. First gear is almost worthless. At the track though I think it really helps, coming out of a turn in 2nd or third it seems to pull better. But on the street I liked the stock gearing. Just my opinion.

Boz
00 Blk/Blk M5 SS coated headers, x-pipe, Remus exhaust, 345 diff, UUC clutch/flywheel, UUc short shifter with DSSR, Powerchip software, Dinan strut and sway bars, beastpower brackets, AA CAI, H&R coilovers, StoptechBBK, 4 oem rears, new nav and bunch of other stuff.
 

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Can someone please explain carb approved? I have never heard of this?

Will the car NOT pass emissions with these headers.



Regards,

Marion
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
CA has more stringent emission policies, so products that are not approved w/ a CARB Num. are not "legal" for street use. Not sure about NY policies.
 

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CARB is California Air Resource Board. As others have stated, this is a sticker exemption for CA's extra tough smog laws.



Mvious said:
Can someone please explain carb approved? I have never heard of this?

Will the car NOT pass emissions with these headers.



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Marion
 

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Mvious said:
Can someone please explain carb approved? I have never heard of this?

Will the car NOT pass emissions with these headers.

Regards,
Marion
Marion,
As othes have said, CARB is California Air Resources Board - the "friendly" folks that require us to do our smog checks every 2 years once a car gets a few years old.

The problem is that any "mods" put on the engine are supposed to be approved by CARB (as proved by the sticker). The sticker certifies that the mod doesn't adversely affect the pollution created by the car.

If the technician doing the smog check notices ANY modifications to the engine/exhaust, he is supposed to check for the CARB sticker. If it is there, he can continue. If not, he is not supposed to complete the test and certify the car.

This is so crazy because many mods that are not certified have absolutely no impact on the smog created by the car. grrrrrrr But mfgrs are not able/willing to submit every one of their components for testing due to the cost involved. Yet without the sticker, you technically aren't able to get the smog certificate. - Even if the car would pass with flying colors!!
 

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akiramats1 said:
So basically, the car will pass emissions as long as the person doing the smog check does not realize that you dont have a CARB approved mod.
If you didn't tell him I'll bet the tech will not even know you added headers. He will check to see if the cats are on the car. You won't have a problem smoging the car because of the headers. If doesn't pass it will because of another problem.
Boz
 

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mottati said:
i bet steve dinan has a set lying around that he'd let you have!
Uhhh...

The process of getting a California Air Resources Board Exemption Order number (generally referred to as an EO, or CARB EO) is something of a matter of trust.

There's some specific paperwork the vendor files with the state documenting what the part is and what range of vehicles the vendor wants to certify the part for and who's going to be doing the testing (there are labs that make a living off this testing) and so forth. CARB then tells the vendor what test regime to run and what vehicle(s) the parts have to be tested on (so if you're trying to certify headers for all year E39 M5s they'd likely insist on the testing being done on an '03.) The vendor does the testing and submits the results to CARB, along with agreeing to warrant the emissions performance of the part for the same period as the factory emissions warranty for the years involved so potentially as much as 8yrs/80K miles (this is a deal-breaker for many smaller firms right off.) CARB then issues the EO.

Now, for the 'matter of trust' part. A vendor that does things by the book finds the process gets easier for subsequent submissions. A vendor that doesn't will find things much more difficult. A vendor with a good track record who went to CARB and wanted to certify headers for every M62/M62TU/S62-powered Bimmer might (I said might, what I'm writing is based on what I've been told by people who have been through the process a few times and not personal experience) get away with testing on an '03 M5 and an '04 Range Rover or X5. One without a track record of competence might be expected to test a bunch more combinations.

One thing that will bring the hammer of enforcement down upon your head is letting your EO stickers get out to people who don't have your parts. Not that it doesn't happen, but any entity who makes a habit of letting it happen and becomes known for such will sooner or later find their corporate testicles kicked back up where they were before birth.
 
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