BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In an F1 car, you never have to move your hands to steer around corners. In all other cars, you move your hands around the wheel and lose the paddle shifter buttons. It seems like you would lose performance and time by trying to find where the paddle shifters have gone off to in the turns. The floor shifter is in a constant position and would seem the most logical place for normal cars to shift in the quickest and most consistent manner.

Is this the experience others have had? I think the only time the paddles would be good is straight-line acceleration, or playing around -- not aggressive driving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,638 Posts
In the M5 you have the option to use the floor shifter as well as the paddles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Ashok Arora said:
In the M5 you have the option to use the floor shifter as well as the paddles.
I guess I'm asking if anyone ever uses or has learned to use the paddles in every situation, or are they mostly for show and fun. I don't see how you could move your hands around the wheel in a corner to shift reliably, and safely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
766 Posts
In brisk street driving, I think 90%+ of my shifting is prior to turn-in. Even on the track I think that's the case. Coming out of corners is where the issue might be and out of the corners is usually less hectic than entry. I doubt I'll have any issues with finding the paddle. Way less effort than shift/clutch. Should make brisk driving a lot easier and perhaps as a result brisker.

Since I'm in the US it'll be a while before I can experience first hand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
During agressive driving why would you have to remove your hands from the steering wheel ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
SuperBMW said:
During agressive driving why would you have to remove your hands from the steering wheel ?
When you are shuffling the steering wheel in a turn, you have to hunt for the paddles to downshift/upshift, because they are no longer in the same position as your hands.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
Digi said:
When you are shuffling the steering wheel in a turn, you have to hunt for the paddles to downshift/upshift, because they are no longer in the same position as your hands.
Sorry but shuffling the steering wheel is bad, and only to be done if you need to turn the wheel more than 180 degrees
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
SuperBMW said:
Sorry but shuffling the steering wheel is bad, and only to be done if you need to turn the wheel more than 180 degrees
Any time you turn the wheel more than 1/4 turn, no matter how you lift and place your hands, the paddles will no longer be where your hands are. How do you shift when the paddles are not aligned with your hands? Am I the only one that has to move their hands in a turn?

PS - I don't always shuffle, but the instructors at the M5 Experience always said to shuffle so that your hands and arms never cover the air bag. I know this isn't always possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
192 Posts
Digi said:
Any time you turn the wheel more than 1/4 turn, no matter how you lift and place your hands, the paddles will no longer be where your hands are. How do you shift when the paddles are not aligned with your hands? Am I the only one that has to move their hands in a turn?

PS - I don't always shuffle, but the instructors at the M5 Experience always said to shuffle so that your hands and arms never cover the air bag. I know this isn't always possible.
On the Nordschleife you dont have to move your hands one single time!
They are always in the position for shifting with the paddles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,564 Posts
The trick is how much you are turning. As Jessem said, most gear changes are not done when the wheel is turned that much. The only example I can think of is accelerating out of a corner hard and needing the next gear. Even though, in that case if you were full throttle in a tight bend steering would come out to keep the car from oversteering too much, and in a gentle bend during track out you wouldnt be steering that much anyway. In most cases when I need gear changes in all the cars I have driven hard I dont have the wheel turned very much at all. I think in the end you'll work the paddles out quite a bit.
In the rare case that you do get caught without knowing where the paddles are, just use the lever on the console and take your hand of the wheel for a second. Much less time with only one hand on the wheel than the diehard manual drivers like me deal with, and we seem to get along just fine.
:cheers:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
I think paddles are a great idea!

But NOT when there attached to the steering wheel. They should've made the paddles static and not turn with the wheel. This was my first thought when I testdrove one a while back, thanks Gustav! :thumbsup:

I can hear U thinking: "But then U need to remove your hands from the steering wheel when turning". No, U don't need to. Have a look at the Peugot rallycar (I belive it was), they have almost a complete ring devided in the middle between 12 and 6. This way you rarely have to let go of the steering wheel and you always know which paddle is up and whitch is down.

Now, my experience is that most owners of performance cars only actually use a fraction of the cars potential so this might not be a problem. But for the rest of us who like to push our cars to the limit I think this is quite annoying.

It might most likely be a problem when drifting the car and that's not so commen perhaps on tarmac. But there are snow and ice in some parts of the world, not that I'd drive mine, if I had one, in the snow but I guess a lot of people would..


In conclusion: It would have been really easy to fix this small problem, perhaps in the next modell.


/R
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,886 Posts
Raid72 said:
I think paddles are a great idea!

But NOT when there attached to the steering wheel. They should've made the paddles static and not turn with the wheel. This was my first thought when I testdrove one a while back, thanks Gustav! :thumbsup:

/R
A number of the magazine reviews have said the same thing. It does seem like it should be fairly simple to change the moving to stationary paddles if BMW decides to. It would be harder to go the other way I think (not-moving to moving paddles).
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
866 Posts
Maggo said:
I was driving cars with static paddles and my oprinion is that paddles on the steering wheel are much better,
I agree... You can keep your hands around the quarter to three / ten to two position, where they fall naturally on the M5, and still change gear while maintaining full control. As for the paddle shifters being a gimmick, I would have to say no. They allow you to keep your hands where they should be and that can only be a good thing when you're driving anywhere close to the limit in something as powerful as an M5.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
256 Posts
Moving paddles definitely preferred, I agree with Jessum, bmwnut & filthy monkey.

Paddles are always where your hands 'should' be, for me at quarter to three. I also agree with others you use the stick shift in traffic when your hands are maybe not at quarter to three, this is really the only time you may need to make a change and paddles are not there, this is what I do in my M3.

On fast open roads or on the track I have never had a problem using paddles, they are brilliant in my opinion, enable you to focus more on placing & steering vehicle through & out of the corner with BOTH hands on the wheel.

If you are really pushing a car and happen to be drifting or have some opposite lock applied you are highly unlikely to be needing to change gears at that point, you need throttle balance not a gear change which will kill throttle balance, you are likely to be exiting or exited the corner & have straightened up or certainly not still have opposite lock applied before requiring that gear change except maybe in the extreme conditions of a rally car which an M5 is not.

Give me paddles as on M3 & M5 that are moving with the wheel, I think BMW made the correct purists choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
714 Posts
Digi said:
In an F1 car, you never have to move your hands to steer around corners. In all other cars, you move your hands around the wheel and lose the paddle shifter buttons. It seems like you would lose performance and time by trying to find where the paddle shifters have gone off to in the turns. The floor shifter is in a constant position and would seem the most logical place for normal cars to shift in the quickest and most consistent manner.

Is this the experience others have had? I think the only time the paddles would be good is straight-line acceleration, or playing around -- not aggressive driving.
edit: i prefer stationary paddles as in ferrari's and maserati's.

why would you need to 'find where the paddle shifters have gone' ???????????????????
they are at 9 :1: 3 always.

paddles that :wroom: with the steering wheel is a little confusing.

agree with most ppl that you dont really want to change gear unnecessarily.
in any case, your hands will still have control of the wheel versus your hand is off to the manual shifter.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
5,150 Posts
in the E39, try changing radio channels or volume on the steering wheel when in a turn and you'll see what a pain it is...

But as others have said, there is seldom a time when you would be shifting during a corner, so it doesn't really matter if the paddles are fixed or moving...
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
10,698 Posts
It all depends on what you mean by gimmick. I think most of us think gimmick has a negative connotation. I surely did. But when I just called it up from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary this is what I get:

Main Entry: 1gim·****
Pronunciation: 'gi-mik
Function: noun
Etymology: origin unknown
1 a : a mechanical device for secretly and dishonestly controlling gambling apparatus b : an ingenious or novel mechanical device : GADGET
2 a : an important feature that is not immediately apparent : CATCH b : an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle
[emphasis added by me]

I do think the idea of paddles is ingenious- your hands are already there and ready to signal for shifts.

The debate as to turning with the steering wheel or in fixed position- I dont know. My opinion for a street car is- I never once had a problem with the paddles in the M3 when I had it. Maybe for track use its best to have the paddles not move with the steering wheel. I can understand both sides here.

However, I think given the level of customization that BMW has seen fit to give to us with the new cars, I think the way to settle this is to give us our cake and let us eat it too. I have even suggested this to them. Put the paddles on a separate collar and it can be made to either turn in concert with the steering wheel or it can be locked in place, the way the Ferrari F1 system is. They could even have it be programmable via idrive :D. Perhaps there is a legal or engineering reason this cannot be done, but that is my suggestion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I am not an experienced track driver, but when i was racing around a long 170 degree turn at Indy Raceway Park, I remember I could either never find the right gear, or never find the paddles. This was my first time driving SMG in an M3 where my helmet was bumping the ceiling, so nothing seemed right. I remember the great frustration at SMG and not being able to shift when I needed to in this corner. Maybe it was all inexperience. At least the floor shifter was always in the same, right position! Thanks for all your responses. I can't wait to practice more!
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
10,698 Posts
If you could not find the right gear when you want it then that is frustrating. I had the same feeling when driving the M3 SMG re: the helmet- and I am not that tall!
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top