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Discussion Starter #1
yeah it can get expensive but are operating cost estimates overblown?

lets say you address the major issues: rod bearings, VANOS, throttle and idle actuators

anyone running their e60 m5 cost effectively? in the context that it is essentially a v10 supercar.

how much are you spending on average per year/month?
 

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Once a used M5 is sorted it's really not much more expensive than a regular 5 series aside from money spent at the pump. Oil changes are bit more, quality tires are more, brakes are spendy if you need rotors, and there being 2-4 more cylinders for the case of plugs/coils.

Majority of my monthly car budget is gas and car washes and then a small amount for a rainy day.
 

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It's as expensive as any v10 supercar -- take that for what it's worth. Over the last 169,000 miles, I'm on my second and third duty cycle of many consumables.

Off the top of my head...

On my 3rd set of rod bearings last replaced at 150,000 miles
On my 3rd suspension, including all the rubber bits, last replaced at 162,000 miles
On my 3rd set of belts and hoses
On my 2nd diff replaced at 80,000 miles
On my 2nd oil cooler replaced at 75,000 miles
On my 2nd HP VANOS line replaced at 150,000 miles
On my 2nd water pump, radiator, thermostat, temp sensor, and expansion tank replaced at 169,000 miles
On my 2nd clutch and transmission, replaced at 157,000 miles
On my 2nd fuel pump -- can't remember when it was replaced

PCV valves...oh yeah, I just did those too. So many things I've done, but have forgotten! Getting old sucks.

I've lost count spark plugs, coils, brakes, rotors, oil changes, tires, and many other things.

I am on my original throttle actuators at 169,000 miles.

These cars can be expensive, if you don't have 1) a good Indy, or 2) mechanical DIY.

For me, I have the mechanical DIY skills, but lack the time or the tools. I have a good Indy shop I use for maintenance.

When I do my math, my Indy's hourly rate is cheaper than my "hourly rate" to do the maintenance myself. The opportunity cost for me to pay someone else is cheaper.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
It's as expensive as any v10 supercar -- take that for what it's worth. Over the last 169,000 miles, I'm on my second and third duty cycle of many consumables.

Off the top of my head...

On my 3rd set of rod bearings last replaced at 150,000 miles
On my 3rd suspension, including all the rubber bits, last replaced at 162,000 miles
On my 3rd set of belts and hoses
On my 2nd diff replaced at 80,000 miles
On my 2nd oil cooler replaced at 75,000 miles
On my 2nd HP VANOS line replaced at 150,000 miles
On my 2nd water pump, radiator, thermostat, temp sensor, and expansion tank replaced at 169,000 miles
On my 2nd clutch and transmission, replaced at 157,000 miles
On my 2nd fuel pump -- can't remember when it was replaced

I've lost count spark plugs, coils, brakes, rotors, oil changes, tires, and many other things.

I am on my original throttle actuators at 169,000 miles.

These cars can be expensive, if you don't have 1) a good Indy, or 2) mechanical DIY.

For me, I have the mechanical DIY skills, but lack the time or the tools. I have a good Indy shop I use for maintenance.

When I do my math, my Indy's hourly rate is cheaper than my "hourly rate" to do the maintenance myself. The opportunity cost for me to pay someone else is cheaper.
very helpful.
Any vanos solenoid replacements?
 

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very helpful.
Any vanos solenoid replacements?
Nope. Not that I can remember. At one point I had 3 generations of m5s at the same time, so sometimes I forget what I did to which m5. Pretty sure i haven’t replaced my solenoids.
 

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It's as expensive as any v10 supercar -- take that for what it's worth. Over the last 169,000 miles, I'm on my second and third duty cycle of many consumables.

Off the top of my head...

On my 3rd set of rod bearings last replaced at 150,000 miles
On my 3rd suspension, including all the rubber bits, last replaced at 162,000 miles
On my 3rd set of belts and hoses
On my 2nd diff replaced at 80,000 miles
On my 2nd oil cooler replaced at 75,000 miles
On my 2nd HP VANOS line replaced at 150,000 miles
On my 2nd water pump, radiator, thermostat, temp sensor, and expansion tank replaced at 169,000 miles
On my 2nd clutch and transmission, replaced at 157,000 miles
On my 2nd fuel pump -- can't remember when it was replaced

I've lost count spark plugs, coils, brakes, rotors, oil changes, tires, and many other things.

I am on my original throttle actuators at 169,000 miles.

These cars can be expensive, if you don't have 1) a good Indy, or 2) mechanical DIY.

For me, I have the mechanical DIY skills, but lack the time or the tools. I have a good Indy shop I use for maintenance.

When I do my math, my Indy's hourly rate is cheaper than my "hourly rate" to do the maintenance myself. The opportunity cost for me to pay someone else is cheaper.
I wish I have the same hourly rate as you.. lol.. on top of that my wife has laser beams that comes out of her eyes that burn whenever I'm working or even just looking at my M5 in the garage :ROFLMAO:.. especially when I got this big ol playground I gotta build for my daughter soon.. oh well
 

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It's as expensive as any v10 supercar -- take that for what it's worth. Over the last 169,000 miles, I'm on my second and third duty cycle of many consumables.

Off the top of my head...

On my 3rd set of rod bearings last replaced at 150,000 miles
On my 3rd suspension, including all the rubber bits, last replaced at 162,000 miles
On my 3rd set of belts and hoses
On my 2nd diff replaced at 80,000 miles
On my 2nd oil cooler replaced at 75,000 miles
On my 2nd HP VANOS line replaced at 150,000 miles
On my 2nd water pump, radiator, thermostat, temp sensor, and expansion tank replaced at 169,000 miles
On my 2nd clutch and transmission, replaced at 157,000 miles
On my 2nd fuel pump -- can't remember when it was replaced

I've lost count spark plugs, coils, brakes, rotors, oil changes, tires, and many other things.

I am on my original throttle actuators at 169,000 miles.

These cars can be expensive, if you don't have 1) a good Indy, or 2) mechanical DIY.

For me, I have the mechanical DIY skills, but lack the time or the tools. I have a good Indy shop I use for maintenance.

When I do my math, my Indy's hourly rate is cheaper than my "hourly rate" to do the maintenance myself. The opportunity cost for me to pay someone else is cheaper.
Hey Fifty, how much was the diff replacement? And how much was a new transmission? Did you get them used? Thanks man. You are an inspiration..mines Smg though, I know your manual.
 

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Hey Fifty, how much was the diff replacement? And how much was a new transmission? Did you get them used? Thanks man. You are an inspiration..mines Smg though, I know your manual.
I honestly can't remember for the diff, as I had a custom diff built. I think it was about $4000 for everything, but I also saw it as an opportunity for some elective maintenance. It was the same story with the clutch and transmission. My clutch went out, and saw it as another opportunity for elective maintenance. I found a used, low mile m3 6MT transmission, with the intention of adding the m3 transmission cooler, upgraded my clutch and added a light weight flywheel. While everything was down and apart -- you might as well pull my rod bearings, VANOS lines, electric oil pumps (as one was slightly cracked), yada, yada, yada....

Clutch:
Review: 6MT bimmerworld/ClutchMasters FX350 clutch and LTW single-mass steel FW

Diff:
BOOM goes my 3.91
 

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I honestly can't remember for the diff, as I had a custom diff built. I think it was about $4000 for everything, but I also saw it as an opportunity for some elective maintenance. It was the same story with the clutch and transmission. My clutch went out, and saw it as another opportunity for elective maintenance. I found a used, low mile m3 6MT transmission, with the intention of adding the m3 transmission cooler, upgraded my clutch and added a light weight flywheel. While everything was down and apart -- you might as well pull my rod bearings, VANOS lines, electric oil pumps (as one was slightly cracked), yada, yada, yada....

Clutch:
Review: 6MT bimmerworld/ClutchMasters FX350 clutch and LTW single-mass steel FW

Diff:
BOOM goes my 3.91
thanks fifty, I appreciate the reply. I’ll probably look into manual swap if my transmission ever goes.. even though I do like the SMG.
 

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I honestly can't remember for the diff, as I had a custom diff built. I think it was about $4000 for everything, but I also saw it as an opportunity for some elective maintenance. It was the same story with the clutch and transmission. My clutch went out, and saw it as another opportunity for elective maintenance. I found a used, low mile m3 6MT transmission, with the intention of adding the m3 transmission cooler, upgraded my clutch and added a light weight flywheel. While everything was down and apart -- you might as well pull my rod bearings, VANOS lines, electric oil pumps (as one was slightly cracked), yada, yada, yada....

Clutch:
Review: 6MT bimmerworld/ClutchMasters FX350 clutch and LTW single-mass steel FW

Diff:
BOOM goes my 3.91
This.. I want to upgrade my rear diff instead of going with a supercharger. Is this item (BMW Motorsport Ring And Pinion Set) be a good alternative to your setup using the existing diff?

934681
 

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This.. I want to upgrade my rear diff instead of going with a supercharger. Is this item (BMW Motorsport Ring And Pinion Set) be a good alternative to your setup using the existing diff?

View attachment 934681
Yes, that 4.10 was an option. I never leave well enough alone -- I wanted custom ramp angles and multiple clutch packs with a mechanical diff. I think I have 3 clutch packs in the e60, while the e28 4.10 has 6 clutch packs!!
 

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Yeah I think the costs are overblown, neglect usually gets you the expensive and more frequent bills. As with any car mostly, the replacement parts unfortunately dont last as long as the original, suspension especially. I'm at an expensive stage 127k miles, needs full suspension refresh, brakes, and now original coils are prolly going and many other original things are due. I have had the car for almost 8 years and more than half the mileage, my RB were done about 90k, regret not doing a few more things at that time like engine mounts.
 

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Neglect in maintenance will kill these cars.

I think replacement parts can last as long as OEM, especially when it comes to the little bits. I used to blow through LCAs every 8,000 miles from track use. I replaced them with Dinan Gen 2 monoballs, and have never needed a subsequent replacement. Today, there are other cheaper-than-Dinan monoball options from Turner and GAS, which never existed back in the early years.

My RPi oil cooler has outlasted OEM. Poly replacement bushings and bits will easily outlast OEM bushings and bits, with only a slight compromise in NVH.

For me, I made a commitment to this platform, as nothing offered by ///Marketing has me excited. Instead of a new car payment, I used the same funds for maintenance -- and build an OEM++ sleeper 6MT e60 m5.

The f10/f12, f80, and f90 does nothing for me. The m4 GTS is a little exciting, but only comes in flappy paddle form. The m2 CS 6MT is the only thing appealing.

After a day at the auto spa...

934682
934683


Time for service...next to my e28 m5:
934684
 

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Exactly, it's all about the maintenance. It's why our cars have the rep they do. Look at FB owners they have no problem spending 2-3k to say 'look at my wheelzzz...'. Same people that think blackstone will keep their rod bearings safe. And when they fail it's not because they decided not to do maintenance. It's because these cars are unreliable POSs or that thick oil you know blablabla...
 

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Exactly, it's all about the maintenance. It's why our cars have the rep they do. Look at FB owners they have no problem spending 2-3k to say 'look at my wheelzzz...'. Same people that think blackstone will keep their rod bearings safe. And when they fail it's not because they decided not to do maintenance. It's because these cars are unreliable POSs or that thick oil you know blablabla...
Your post got me thinking. Ever since I've been around, the ballers on a budget and their priorities (or lack thereof) have been a core reason that german performance/flagships depreciate like rocks. That had to start at one time though. I'm sure it wasn't like that back at the genesis of MBenz and his first car on the market in 1901. So I guess what my question is: when did all that budget balling start? 70's? 80's? And follow up, what was the first victim to this kind of depreciation if anyone knows.
 

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Exactly, it's all about the maintenance. It's why our cars have the rep they do. Look at FB owners they have no problem spending 2-3k to say 'look at my wheelzzz...'. Same people that think blackstone will keep their rod bearings safe. And when they fail it's not because they decided not to do maintenance. It's because these cars are unreliable POSs or that thick oil you know blablabla...
Yup. Lots of money spent on "All Show!" Which, eventually leads to "No Go!"

And, eventually, that POS ends up on YouTube for clicks or another owner on a "beer budget" with "Champagne Dreams!"

Although, it seems like more enthusiasts are starting to find their way into s85s.

@Slamfire Budget Balling started with BMW Financial Services with attractive lease terms. The first "owners" rented their cars, turned them in at the BMW Rental counter, and moved on to the next shiny lease.
 

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The way I tackle my M5 is to do an upgrade at the same time as maintenance. Things like bearings, front thrust bushings, etc. have all been upgraded during replacement. Like the diff for example, I will tell my wife there is a leak and to fix it I need to replace it with a rebuilt diff with a custom 3-clutch setup with asymmetric ramps and 4.10 gearing.. oh yeah, and fix the leak too.. lol
 

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It depends, in my case NO.
My 2008 m5 is a perfect case of Frankenstein. I try to find cheap used OEM parts on Ebay and play with them.

Chronologically, this is my list:

1. Alternator.
The alternator died. I bought a used one on Ebay for $100, but used one had bad bearing. So i tried to return it, but the seller said its not worth selling it again so he refunded $100 and closed the trade. I decided to play with it and swapped the voltage regulator and voila, works super. I tried contacting the seller to pay something for using his voltage regulator, but the trade was marked closed on Ebay and i couldn't get in touch with seller.
COST: $0

2. Idle actuators.
By swapping bank 2 and bank 1 and swapping the electronic boards, i realized only the bank 2 board was shot. I bought new plastic gears for $75, and used actuator with worn gears on ebay for $150, and had the car up and running super smooth.
COST: $225.

3. PCV Valves.
While working on idle actuators, replaced the two PCV valves with new ones. The Driver side PCV valve was leaking, and after replacing, my oil consumption was stopped. It was guzzling about 1 Quart for every 650 miles. After new PCV Valves, meter is still at +0.9 after 400 miles (use only 0.1).
COST: $50

4. Clutch and flywheel:
I found the work on this too much for my time. Thinking back, i could have done this. Bought Luke package on ebay for $1000, and had it replaced by a mechanic and Mieneke for $1000. He forgot to tighten the drive shaft and it came loose later when i was ripping it.
COST: $2000.

5. Diff seal:
The drive shaft from above job came loose and started shaking. It stressed out the diff seal. I bought the diff seal , Original, for $45, and two liters of 75w140 Valvoline synthetic for $26 and was done.
COST: $70.

6. Cats:
While working on diff seal, i saw that my car has no cats lol. Previous owner had taken it out presumably. I have ordered two used manifold headers with cats for $600. I will install them myself. Hopefully this weekend , and goal it to keep the car running super clean !
COST: $600.

So, when sh1t happens, have to garage the car and slowly get it back up, and be cost efficient while doing it. Thats my goal.

Car now runs awesome and I don't "abuse" it at all. I will let it warm up before revving. I never rev up when its cold.

I bought it 3 years back with 97K on it, and its now at 137K.

Enjoy !!
 

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The way I tackle my M5 is to do an upgrade at the same time as maintenance. Things like bearings, front thrust bushings, etc. have all been upgraded during replacement. Like the diff for example, I will tell my wife there is a leak and to fix it I need to replace it with a rebuilt diff with a custom 3-clutch setup with asymmetric ramps and 4.10 gearing.. oh yeah, and fix the leak too.. lol
The trick is to really sell being upset at "needing" to fix something new. If you act too excited by getting M5 parts in the mail they know. Ask me how I know they know...
 

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The trick is to really sell being upset at "needing" to fix something new. If you act too excited by getting M5 parts in the mail they know. Ask me how I know they know...
It's been, i-can't-remember-how-many-years, my wife hasn't realized I'm swapping cats, in and out to pass smog in August. Every time I swap them out, my wife is like, "Did the car get louder?" I'm like, "No, it's just summer now, and we are driving around with our windows down more."
 
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