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Anyone running a standalone ECU?

28K views 44 replies 11 participants last post by  evolve automotive 
#1 ·
I'm getting tired of not being able to tune my car... to that end I'm investigating aftermarket standalone ECU options. The bottom line is they're all compromises for a street car. The Pectel SQ-6 seems to be the better solution for ignition, fuel and vanos control including drive by wire and traction control. ViPec V88 has a similar solution. ProEfi is a new player, has just finished install on an E46 M3 turbo and seems to work well (no first hand knowledge). The ProEfi solution doesn't control vanos, but integrates with the CAN bus and there aren't any CEL's and the car remains emission compliant with a few tricks. The Pectel and Vipec solutions will cause the DME to throw CEL's if the vanos is in a position the DME doesn't recognize, and for OBDII emissions I'll have to switch back to the factory DME and drive around a bit...

No solution is ideal, what I'm looking for is anyone who's done it and what your thoughts are.

Thanks...
 
#2 · (Edited)
As discussed in the other thread, the only tried and true solutions for aftermarket ECUs with the S62 are Motec M800 and the Pectel SQ-6, each run piggy-back with the stock ECU and each requiring a rewiring of the vanos solenoids to effectuate vanos control. I'll post the description of the vanos modification, which is pretty straightforward, as soon as I find it. I have been told that the Vipec cannot control the vanos, and I'd be very hesitant personally of any tuning solution that doesn't integrate vanos control.

I agree that this is a serious drawback to the E39 M5, viz., having to reflash the ECU in order to tune the car, leaving us at the mercy of the very few who have "broken the BMW code," as it were, and preventing us from switching tunes at will or as a safety valve (e.g., when one runs out of methanol!) I would love to see someone develop a "plug and play" replacement for the MSS52 ECU that provided the same kind of tuning control, flexibility, expandability and data logging as the Motec and Pectel.

I have to install an aftermarket ECU at some point because I have to have the ability to switch between race/street/meth/drag tunes when I want, with the press of a button, and one just cannot do that with the stock ECU. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

--Peter
 
#3 ·
sounds like some trips to PRI are in order next year - all the companies in one location and you can ask the technical staff right there.
 
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#5 ·
Professional Racing Industry - it's possibly the single best automotive trade show, usually held around January in Orlando, Florida.

for clarification: SEMA is for marketing guys and show cars - lots of 30" wheels, and body kits. PRI is far more geared towards drivers, engineers, nerds - computer modeling, real no-chrome racecar parts, CNC machines, etc. etc.
 
#14 ·
Professional Racing Industry - it's possibly the single best automotive trade show, held in December in Orlando, Florida.

for clarification: SEMA is for marketing guys and show cars - lots of 30" wheels, and body kits. PRI is far more geared towards drivers, engineers, nerds - computer modeling, real no-chrome racecar parts, CNC machines, etc. etc.
Fixed :cheers:
 
#7 ·
HPF has plug and play AEM EMS systems laying around but when I asked about buying one, Chris Bergemann basically told me to **** off.

Motec just came out with an entry level unit (M84) that won't cost you 8 or 10 grand.

Also, have you looked into the AEM FIC 8? I don't see why that wouldn't be able to work well as a piggyback.

Is VANOS really that much of a bear to get right with a piggyback? I don't understand why everyone says it's so complicated.
 
#9 ·
Vanos isn't so hard to control, the Pectel can do it, Vipec can do single vanos on V8's, not dual. Motec can do it as well, but lots of add on stuff that the other boxes come with, so it gets expensive.

The issue is more integration than any one piece running the engine. Since this is a street car that needs obdii emissions testing etc... going to a complete standalone is difficult. Also the DME will tell when the vanos isn't in a position it likes and throw a CEL, from what the two tuners have told me...

Haven't looked into the AEM FIC 8, the two guys I've talked to (Nick P. and John Reed) have both suggested Pectel as they have succesfully integrated the Pectel SQ-6 into a BMW and have the setup files ready to go and the ViPec for single vanos (target car is a SC M62TU), so this could work...
 
#11 ·
Aem is some of the biggest garbage I've ever laid eyes on. End of story. Find an aem car with smooth transient/tip-in response
 
#16 ·
If all you want is a bit of control and the ability to switch maps then we already have a solution.
An obd2 cable which allows you to load any file you want.

If your looking into setting up and mapping a standalone yourself then you are potentially entering a world of frustration and high expense. Mapping a standalone ecu to work correctly under various weather conditions is serious hard work and you'll find yourself going through a complete development process.
At the end of it your car will drive not as nice as with a oem ecu and you'll understand why it costs BMW so much money to developed a programme/ecu package for each car.

Most of the time where people go down the standalone route, they end up getting a professional to map the ecu and that won't be cheap if you want to use someone who knows what they are doing.

I would suggest sticking with the oem ecu and work with someone who is willin to explain and show you the programme. Then get some files made and then all you need is a cable/software package which allows flashing.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for this. Those of us considering this route already are spending serious smack to fly tuners in from out of the country to custom tune our ECU. Moreover, standalone ECUs such as the Motec M8800 and Pectel Sq-6 provide flexibility and integration that, by itself, the stock ECU simply does not. For example, I would love to have my ECU immediately switch from a meth tune with advanced timing to a non-meth tune as a fail-safe whenever it detects that I am running low on meth. That's stupid simple to do on a standalone, but impossible to do on the stock ECU. Or how about PWM control of a fuel pump? Easy for a standalone. Not so much for the MSS52.

That all being said, having the ability to switch tunes with an OBD2 to USB cord is definitely something I would like to do in the meantime, but there seem to be a plethora of competing cords and software for accomplishing this, some incompatible. Any recommendations?

--Peter
 
#21 ·
I know with many BMW DMEs, at least when using BMW software (DIS, SSS/Progman, etc.) you can only flash the DME a finite number of times (I believe my Bosch Ms5.2 has a limit of 13 DME flashes). Is this also true for the Siemens Mss52?
 
#22 ·
MSS52 has a maximum of 50 flashes for the data area and around 13 for the programming area.

However, if you exceed the 50 flashes to the data area (which is what our cable programmes along with other flash tools) then there is a way to 'unlock' the ECU.

My own car has had over 150 flashes (locked our 3 times so far) and I have successfully unlocked it.
 
#25 ·
So it's down to V88, Pectel or ProEfi. All will require custom harnesses built. I will forgo vanos control as with just intake vanos it's not worth the CEL. The ViPec software with auto tune is pretty sweet, especially for an amateur tuner. The support for the Pectel is outstanding and I have a world class Pectel tuner (does all of underground racing TT Lambo's and a new TT V10 R8, pretty crazy) about 100 miles south in Portland, Or.

The Vipec would be coming from Massachusettes with remote help, so I may end up with the "local" guy route, even though he's not purely a "BMW" guy. The guy in Mass is a BMW electrical expert, so, decisions, decisions...
 
#26 · (Edited)
So it's down to V88, Pectel or ProEfi. All will require custom harnesses built. I will forgo vanos control as with just intake vanos it's not worth the CEL. The ViPec software with auto tune is pretty sweet, especially for an amateur tuner. The support for the Pectel is outstanding and I have a world class Pectel tuner (does all of underground racing TT Lambo's and a new TT V10 R8, pretty crazy) about 100 miles south in Portland, Or.

The Vipec would be coming from Massachusettes with remote help, so I may end up with the "local" guy route, even though he's not purely a "BMW" guy. The guy in Mass is a BMW electrical expert, so, decisions, decisions...
Wiring pretty simple. I've wired my share of stand alones. Just buy a few sets of mil-spec 1/4-turn barrel connectors, and put this in your favorites bar: http://www.buyheatshrink.com/


I have recently been hearing lots of good things about ProEFI. A good friend, who is a fantastic tuner and fabricator is running one on his volvo - pictures to add context to "volvo":







 
#33 · (Edited)
oY,
Nick P here. Just FYI the pro-efi and the V88/G4Extreme will handle vanos on the M62tu. The vanos system on that car is much simpler than the motorsport variant.
For dual bank motorsport vanos, you need 8 high load GPOs which is beyond the capability of almost all standalones besides Cosworth/Pectel or Motec right now. I cruise through PRI almost every year to see what is up and coming and this is basically it unless something new has just come out.
V88/G4 cannot control more than 4GPOs for VVT, so vanos control is limited to 2 cams/one bank. Works fine with S54. Both pro-efi and Link are working on hardware that will be more capable in the near future. Actually, if Link got their can interface up and running, then 2 ecus could be used right now for those engines.


Here is an S54 with sport cams, stepped header. Approx 4-5 passes for performance tuning only and no where near done. This car runs individual knock control, drive by wire, vanos, everything in an E36 M3 race car.
I find there is always more power to be had with standalones over OEM due to all the emissions restrictive programming.

 
#36 ·
Guys, if anyone is interested to modify the stock MSS52 program I can help. I do not have all the information but I have enough that if you are determined that you will get to the routines that you need. The help I offered is not technical advise, just advise on how to disassemble the program and read the code.

I still believe that if all the interested guys will work together on a project like this it will be very clear and easy in the end...;)
 
#37 ·
Guys, if anyone is interested to modify the stock MSS52 program I can help. I do not have all the information but I have enough that if you are determined that you will get to the routines that you need. The help I offered is not technical advise, just advise on how to disassemble the program and read the code.

I still believe that if all the interested guys will work together on a project like this it will be very clear and easy in the end...;)
That's the easy part, being able to read the ECU and write back to it is the hard part.
 
#40 ·
I have a chip reader/programmer. On my audi, I had to have the chip removed and a socket installed, and the chip could not be used after it was removed. I was able to read the file off it eventually though.

I wrote a decompiler, decompiled it, found the maps, wrote a program to correct the checksum, bought a spare ECU to probe the A/D ports on the processor while the car was running to figure the variables out, etc, etc, but it was a pain to reprogram, I had to pull the ECU out, disassemble it, remove the chip, reprogram it, then put it all back together. .

OBD2 programming is the way to go. Reading data and making changes real-time via the OBD2 port would be even better. The Ford/GM/Honda guys have it good in this regard.

I just now saw your post on this forum linking to the digital kaos forum, I'm checking it out now. Some very good info there, looks like the ECU uses the same memory chip as my Audi - 29F200
 
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#42 ·
The way I figured is I will not "tune" my DME and run it straight on a expensive engine, so a lot of bench testing will be needed anyway. Buy a spare MSS52 DME, solder two BDM plugs on it and start playing and learning.
You do not really need the EWS key combo with the DME, if you copy the complete BIN files of both EEPROMS and program it on the spare DME it will work on your own cars EWS and key combo.
 
#43 ·
Hi!

We've not spoken in a while!

Will keep you updated on stuff via email.

With copying the complete chips from one ECU and putting them into another does not work unless you also take the key and EWS unit.

Unless I misunderstand what your saying.

There are 3 elements going on here:
1. finding the capability to read / write to the ECU
2. Knowing where the maps are you want to change
3. Coming up with a tuning strategy.

If all you want to do is change some fuel and ignition targets then that's not hard but it won't do much other than probably lose you power.

Changing rpm limiters, speed limit in gears etc is very very easy.

Start trying to find the more juicy stuff and it's a different story and then sit there making changes on a dyno can be very costly especially if you make a mistake.

For companies it's all a very different story because we have a development budget which usually includes an entire car and some of us have test facilities and most of the tools at hand already.


None of this is actually very hard but the correct approach has to be taken and information is everything.
 
#45 ·
I already tried what your saying some time back but the ews will not align.

You are only missing one piece of information.
If you get that then there is very little work to do.

You jump straight to the tuning part which is when most people will get quite uneasy because your now playing with you engines.
I forgot to mention that you also need a good diagnostic cable to do datalogging.

Send me over what you have done so far.
 
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