BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My buddy is sales manager at local dealership and his best guess, and I repeat, Best guess, is that the average E60 M5 will sticker out around $92-$93.

al
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,886 Posts
M5 Fever said:
My buddy is sales manager at local dealership and his best guess, and I repeat, Best guess, is that the average E60 M5 will sticker out around $92-$93.

al
My original guess was $85K base with $5-$10K options, plus tax etc. will end up around $100K out the door. Was your friend's guess including options?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
540 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The $92-$93 guess was based on average number/amount for options. I will ask him what he thinks a fully dressed version will be.

al
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
247 Posts
E3
M5 Fever said:
The $92-$93 guess was based on average number/amount for options. I will ask him what he thinks a fully dressed version will be.

al
E39 M5s were pretty much fully loaded. They only had a handful of options. Does your buddy think the base E60 will be lacking in standard features and thus people will add options?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,723 Posts
Lets consider this some more.

Base price for the E39 was $69,900 or so. Add the gas-guzzlers tax and all the options and the sticker was about $73,400. Minimal options as well.

At the same time the E39 540i was priced loaded at around $58,000. A spread of about $12,000.

The current E60 545i is priced at about $64,000, adding a fifteen thousand dollar premium (slightly larger car) would bring the price of the E60 M5 in at $79,000 plus gas guzzler tax with options about $83,000. Now hear me out.

The price of the 645i coupe is about $75,000; I'll leave out the cab version as not comparable. BMW has on tap the M6 in a close time line with the M5 and is facing slow E60 sales. The M6 will be the new flagship of BMW performance, taking some of the luster off the M5 and the M6 did not exist when the E39 M5 hit our shores. So the dynamics have changed. Rumors of higher prices are just that, rumors.

Aggressive pricing of the M5 makes no sense giving these facts and would be out of character for BMW who will make for the US market maybe 12,000 units. The market for the E39s kind of dried up toward the end and many sat on lots in the first half of 2004 and late 2003 in some markets. Heads are turned to many car types and models these days. BMW must recognize this and want to look successful and it is my hope that the price will be not more than $79,000. That would be $10,000 dollars more that the E39 and that's consistent with prices we’ve already seen.

Finally, consider the price of gasoline. I expect the V10 to produce about the same of slightly better mileage than the E39 giving its same displacement as the E39 and better engine management. During the model run, BMW has to consider the rising price of gas, by projecting future gas prices and taking that into account in its pricing of the M5.

Also consider the current E55 pricing, base price $78,550. In the former models they were about the same, the E55 and M5. Even though the M5 is a V10 the performance will not be that much different, the displacement the same and performance gains will be had at the higher speeds.

So I’m hopping and yes praying the Price will be no more than $79,000 plus gas guzzler tax and options totaling no more than $83,000. Again minimal options.

Higher than that and I will opt out of the car, with that kind of money there are many performance cars with better resale values to consider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,886 Posts
Jim Dolan said:
Lets consider this some more.

Base price for the E39 was $69,900 or so. Add the gas-guzzlers tax and all the options and the sticker was about $73,400. Minimal options as well.

At the same time the E39 540i was priced loaded at around $58,000. A spread of about $12,000.

The current E60 545i is priced at about $64,000, adding a fifteen thousand dollar premium (slightly larger car) would bring the price of the E60 M5 in at $79,000 plus gas guzzler tax with options about $83,000. Now hear me out.

The price of the 645i coupe is about $75,000; I'll leave out the cab version as not comparable. BMW has on tap the M6 in a close time line with the M5 and is facing slow E60 sales. The M6 will be the new flagship of BMW performance, taking some of the luster off the M5 and the M6 did not exist when the E39 M5 hit our shores. So the dynamics have changed. Rumors of higher prices are just that, rumors.

Aggressive pricing of the M5 makes no sense giving these facts and would be out of character for BMW who will make for the US market maybe 12,000 units. The market for the E39s kind of dried up toward the end and many sat on lots in the first half of 2004 and late 2003 in some markets. Heads are turned to many car types and models these days. BMW must recognize this and want to look successful and it is my hope that the price will be not more than $79,000. That would be $10,000 dollars more that the E39 and that's consistent with prices we’ve already seen.

Finally, consider the price of gasoline. I expect the V10 to produce about the same of slightly better mileage than the E39 giving its same displacement as the E39 and better engine management. During the model run, BMW has to consider the rising price of gas, by projecting future gas prices and taking that into account in its pricing of the M5.

Also consider the current E55 pricing, base price $78,550. In the former models they were about the same, the E55 and M5. Even though the M5 is a V10 the performance will not be that much different, the displacement the same and performance gains will be had at the higher speeds.

So I’m hopping and yes praying the Price will be no more than $79,000 plus gas guzzler tax and options totaling no more than $83,000. Again minimal options.

Higher than that and I will opt out of the car, with that kind of money there are many performance cars with better resale values to consider.
Unfortunately, one more thing to consider. We're talking about a 2006 model E60 M5 vs others 2004 or 2005 prices. I don't know how long the German car mfg's can hold down prices with the euro as strong as it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,723 Posts
Wolverine said:
Unfortunately, one more thing to consider. We're talking about a 2006 model E60 M5 vs others 2004 or 2005 prices. I don't know how long the German car mfg's can hold down prices with the euro as strong as it is.
Mfg's trade in currencies to offset these losses, BMW has very strong and significant manufacturing facilities here in the US and finally all models have a large cushion between the cost to manufacture and deliver cars and the retail price. That's why year-end sales, model closeouts and the like often have a sixteen percent or more discounts in the price at the dealer. You haven't heard of many dealer's going broke. And the X5, X3 and Z4 are a major part of BMW's profits.

If you look at history, BMW and MB have always been slow to match the volatility of the currency environment they trade in. Caution is the word otherwise they might compromise the marquis. Finally, currency valuations are fluid and often return to their former self, just like interest rates, stocks and real estate.

I may be way off base but if everyone felt like I do and BMw was listening they might be less aggressive in pricing and that would be good for all of us. Remember loose lips sink ships. :blabla: Merry Christmas :2:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Jim Dolan said:
Higher than that and I will opt out of the car, with that kind of money there are many performance cars with better resale values to consider.
How do you know what the M5's resale value will be? In my experience, early adopters of cars like this can make back all their investment (and maybe a premium on top of that) within the first six months of buying a car such as the E60.

The demand seems high, if it was a Ferrari I'd be down on the list to have it for half a year then sell it for profit or slight loss. As it is, I'll probably use the M5 as the daily driver but I still think you could do the above.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
10,698 Posts
Jim,
While I think you've hit many high points, I think you are leaving out the following factors:

* We here are early adopters, by and large, and our perceptions of brands will be ahead of the curve, BMWs brand is now stronger than MB and M is stronger still. They may want to see what they can get out of the market.

* The exchange rate will have to be a factor- their hedges have run out and I don't know how they hedge again and what the price to do so is.

* The engine and to a slightly lesser extent the transmission in the E60 M5 are brand new developed by and for M. The V10 especially. Although there is a lot of marketing hype, its really not that much directly derived from their F1 efforts. The cost to develop an engine from scratch has got to be higher than the cost to take an existing engine and tweak it- albeit they really did do it right on the S62 from the E39. SMG is jointly done with Siemens (I think its them). So the costs they need to recover are probably higher- and getting back to the exchange rate, those costs were incurred probably mostly in DM or Euros.

* Finally, a loaded up 545i sport is $69,945 before taxes, etc. There is a 20% increase in the price of the M5 over the 540 in your example. So adding another 20% on to a loaded 545= ~$84k.

My gut feeling is the base price will be low to mid 80s. My guestimate on prices before taxes, etc:

M5: $82k
M6: $94k
M6 Cabrio: $106k- produced in ultra low volume in the last 1.5 years of the product cycle. Just a guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
I for the most part agree Jim, although seeing more and more about the M6 makes me think that $100k+ may be pretty much standard for that car. If so, that gives BMW more room to mark up the M5.

However, you are dead on that it can't get too far from the E55.

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,723 Posts
MEnthusiast said:
Jim,
While I think you've hit many high points, I think you are leaving out the following factors:

* We here are early adopters, by and large, and our perceptions of brands will be ahead of the curve, BMWs brand is now stronger than MB and M is stronger still. They may want to see what they can get out of the market.

* The exchange rate will have to be a factor- their hedges have run out and I don't know how they hedge again and what the price to do so is.

* The engine and to a slightly lesser extent the transmission in the E60 M5 are brand new developed by and for M. The V10 especially. Although there is a lot of marketing hype, its really not that much directly derived from their F1 efforts. The cost to develop an engine from scratch has got to be higher than the cost to take an existing engine and tweak it- albeit they really did do it right on the S62 from the E39. SMG is jointly done with Siemens (I think its them). So the costs they need to recover are probably higher- and getting back to the exchange rate, those costs were incurred probably mostly in DM or Euros.

* Finally, a loaded up 545i sport is $69,945 before taxes, etc. There is a 20% increase in the price of the M5 over the 540 in your example. So adding another 20% on to a loaded 545= ~$84k.

My gut feeling is the base price will be low to mid 80s. My guestimate on prices before taxes, etc:

M5: $82k
M6: $94k
M6 Cabrio: $106k- produced in ultra low volume in the last 1.5 years of the product cycle. Just a guess.

Alright, now we're getting more reasonable. I can except this Jerry.

"* We here are early adopters, by and large, and our perceptions of brands will be ahead of the curve, BMWs brand is now stronger than MB and M is stronger still. They may want to see what they can get out of the market."

Here I cannot totally agree in this sense. You and I know the BMW brand is ahead of MB, however I don't think the general car buying public knows this has happened yet. And like I suggested BMW does not want to lay and egg with an overpriced M5 which it would most certainly do in the $90s.

Hope springs eternal ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,469 Posts
Of course there is always the famous "Dealers' market adjustments". Here in the Bay Area, that ran anywhere between $15k-$20k. :(

I know we can shop out of area dealers for MSRP. The trade off is a very long wait.

Luckily I'm not into the E60, so neither the price nor the wait is a concern.

CP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
90-100K US dollars is kind of high in my opinion. 75-80k is a possibility. I would have to reconsider if the car is in the 90-100k range....
The interior is barely acceptable for a 60k car....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
Honestly, this kind of confuses me. I know cars are relativelly cheaper in US than in Europe (or they used to be) but the thing is:


BMW M5 std price in europe: ~85k euro with tax (for a country with low car tax).
1€=1.25 US (or something like this)

How come you guys all think an M5 at 100k is a "little high", a "bad deal" or whatever?! I mean, either BMW is making 20k extra profit here in europe or they are taking a hit over there... In the first case, this means EU M5 buyers are subsidizing US carsgrrrrrrr , and the second case is not too good either from a (EU) costumer point of view and i really don't think bmw would want to loose money on a car... I know US is biggest single market for M5, but especially now with the end of block-exemption for car industry they should EU market as a whole, not country by country...

Now, this would be an interesting point to talk about with your salesman hiha .
Also, apparently price gounging occurs a lot more in US (or at least it is more exposed fenomenon).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
704 Posts
António Duarte said:
How come you guys all think an M5 at 100k is a "little high", a "bad deal" or whatever?!
Its all relative to what the other cars cost over here. An E55 is in the ~80k range, would be hard for BMW to price the M5 much above that.

Doesn't matter what they sell for in the rest of the world. Only what the cars they compete with sell for. That determins if its a good or bad deal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,356 Posts
The lower prices in the US are due to lower taxes and regulatory costs. Same with gasoline.

The price that the M5 can fetch may largely be a function of supply more than competition. I bet there are many on this board that would pay very sizeable sums for the ultimate ultimate driving machine. After that group is exhausted, I expect there to be considerable price elasticity.

Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
I agree with Engima on this. When I look at the M5, I do have to consider its competition. Once it passes a price point, its competition changes.

I think they have to keep it near the E55. It may be able to justify a slight increase in price due to the performance, however many will consider the decreased luxury compared to the E55/CLS as a demerit, which could remove any performance justification.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,655 Posts
whatever the e55 costs with similart options- this is your price point. i would think it would be a bad marketing move to price the m5 higher. it is that simple.

the m5 and the e55 are the both sides of the same coin. and the coin has the same value either way ;)

alex
few cars
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top