BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

21 - 40 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
Life Cycle Impulse. This is BMW speak for the mid cycle platform improvements made to a generation of the platform. All automakers do this. There are usually significant engineering revisions that may not be visually apparent along with minor facelifts to the front and back of the car. Most of the engineering revisions are to address known weak points and early field failures. It's thoroughly debated on whether BMW actually properly addressed the rod bearing issue, but they certainly addressed the VANOS pump, internal hose, and gear design among other things. The model year LCI for the E60 was in 2008, I believe that was also true for the E63 (it would be really odd if it wasn't).

I understand that the change to removed the copper/lead/tin style rod bearings and go to a harder Aluminum/Tin material was running change made in 2008 calendar year to meet EU compliance for removal of lead. Thus it was NOT tied to LCI. My 08 E60 M5 had the softer copper/lead/tin bearings, they are sitting in my kitchen. When the S85 engines are made it is not known if it will go in an E60 or E63. Same with the transmission, it just doesn't matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
I'd like to get your opinion on two cars I'm looking at right now. Both are basically priced the same, within $500. The first is a 2009 coupe with 85k miles and the second is a 2008 convertible with 46k miles on it. Both the same color with same color interior, though the '08 is a lighter shade of tan. I know the '08 has the older display and smaller nav display pod on the dash. Both are 6spd manual gearbox cars, which is what I'm looking for now. I won't put many miles on the car, so whatever condition the car is in now is most likely how it will be in another 5 years or so. Of course I'm inclined to replace the rod bearings in either of the cars as a preventative to a major failure. I know the convertible is a love/hate relationship with most folks. It is a little odd looking with the flying buttresses on the top. But it is growing on me. With the top down, the interior to exterior color (black) contrast is quite stunning. That is a plus for me.

So what difference between the two cars might you have questions about in doing a comparison. Are there difference '08 to '09 that you'd choose the '09 even though it has twice the mileage? Are there LCI differences that are material to the two years? The '08 is a 10/07 production date and same import date. The '09 has a import date of 03/09 from the Carfax reeport. The iDrive looks to be a major change, whether that is material or not I don't know not having any experience with the system. Obviously the '09 has survived an extra 40k miles, so anything that might go wrong hopefully would have gone wrong and is fixed. The '08 has been hardly used in the last couple years and normal wear and tear hasn't happened yet.

So I'd like your opinion if you don't mind sharing. Thanks, Dennis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
o2sys, how long ago did you find your 2010 car? I presume it is a 6spd, but ???? How long did it take to find it? If you don't mind sharing the purchase price, that would be beneficial to my search and price offering. If you don't want to disclose that info on the forum, that is fine. Perhaps you can email or post to me direct. Dennis
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
08 and 09 have the same radio and screen. Only difference is 09 has the newer idrive controller.

There may be a few engine updates in the 09. It may have a gen3 s85. Look for an old post from troy stating the s85 changes over the years. That 08 has a gen2 s85. People often quote vanos upgrades but depending who you trust the only undisputed change was the pump gears which were introduced on gen2 engines.

I'd go with the 08, less wear and tear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
I found the post from Troy regarding the changes. It sounds like the gen 2 (out of gen 1, 2, 3) S85 motors might be the most desirable based on the use of the old bearing construction and updates to the VANOS pump gears. The gen 3 motor has the different bearing material construction that is harder than what was used in the gen 1 and gen 2 motors. Regardless of which gen motor, replacement of the rod bearings is still recommended ASAP. I wish I was still proficient at doing my own mechanical work. When doing the bearing replacement, do the updated piston oil jets and except for some of the bolt changes, the motor will be updated to gen 3 status. Troy didn't mention whether or not the valve changes had a difference to performance or service.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
o2sys, here is the link to Troy's posting of changes.


I just found another 6spd M6 with low mileage. Now I'm wondering if a car can have too few miles on them. Cars that I'm considering right now are two 2008 convertibles one with 46k miles and one with 20k miles. The third car is a 2009 coupe with 86k miles. In pure collectible status the 20k car might be the best option. But for a car that has hopefully been driven and used enough that everyday issues have been taken care of or already failed and have been fixed, might favor the 46k car. The 86k car to me seems high. But it might have been a daily driver with everything except the rod bearings and VANOS work completed.

What do you guys think? Is 20k miles too little for this car?
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
The valves, valve collets and spring top plates were changed to be common with the S65. Same with the crankcase bolts apparently. I wouldn't read much about it other than an attempt to save money by using common parts. Rod bearings are also shared between engines btw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
I got the impression that the gen 1 and 2 S85 rod bearings might be favored since they were made of a softer material and less likely to damage the crank upon wear or failure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
My 2010 which is an 09/2009 build had 088/089 bearings when I did the rod bearings. Also don't remember seeing the second drain bolt.


Going back to your topic, for such a low miles (20k) I would buy and do the maintenance on it and enjoy all the miles to come on it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
My 2010 which is an 09/2009 build had 088/089 bearings when I did the rod bearings. Also don't remember seeing the second drain bolt.
If one goes by realoem the s85 never got the newer lead free bearings. So no surprise there. But are you sure you don't have 2 drain plugs? If so your engine was likely swapped at some point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
Yeah all LCIs have the 2nd drain plug, and you have to have drain that oil since it hold 1L of oil and all the old nasty crud. That plastic cover always seems to be trashed, missing or wrong bolts, etc. This is why many of us change our own oil, something so simple is often not done correctly or with the right amount of care.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
08 and 09 have the same radio and screen. Only difference is 09 has the newer idrive controller.
Just to put it out there, since you are contemplating a 09 or 10.
All 08s have the 1st Gen iDrive (CCC), which just has the knob and a menu button. 09 and 10 have 2nd Gen iDrive (CIC), there are like 6 buttons. The difference between CCC and CIC are night and day, I'm mainly talking about the software, but the software can only run if the hardware is compatible. CCC is like Windows 3.1. CIC is like Windows 95. The 3rd Gen iDrive is NBT which some E60 owners have retrofitted, and it has 95% full functionality. I believe that NBT is the what has been used in BMWs for the past several years now. There are alot of threads on other BMW forums that go into detail on this, since it applies to all E60/E63s not just M5/M6s. I wouldn't say that 08 and 09+ have the same radio, that infers the same hardware and software. I have my '10 purposely for the CIC. The part number is different than my 08. Screens are compatible as far as I can tell, didn't bother to check part numbers.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
1,743 Posts
GM you got that info backwards. 09's use CCC: same head unit (radio and software) and screen as in previous years. 09s got the newer controller with extra buttons and nothing else. Only 2010s got the newer CIC head unit and screen.

Screens are not compatible fyi.

Also technically the 08 and 09 CCC's are not the exact same as pre-LCI, memory buttons were added on LCI CCCs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
I have watched this an similar threads and whilst I am from the UK and the prices there are very low, I actually live in Portugal and the price`s for the M5 v10 and M6 v10 are very different in mainland Europe where the used car market is way more stable, this brings with it very firm used values, as an example a 2005 M6 with 100k on the clock at a dealer range from €40k to €50k or around $55k!!! and if you go up a few years the prices can be quite eye watering !


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
Jeff, what you're telling us is to buy and export M5's and M6's to Europe. Not a bad idea except for all the import duties. I sold a 2002 M Roadster to a gentleman in Denmark a year or so ago. His cost nearly doubled after adding all the import duties, fees and taxes. But if he wanted to sell the car, he'd get all of his money back based on rarity and condition, low miles etc.... Is there a big price difference between manual gearbox cars vs. SMG cars? I realize you guys didn't get the option, but I'm sure some have been exported from the USA. Do you have the same issues with the SMG that appears to happen over here? Or do you guys drive them differently and have fewer problems with them?

Flacoramos, so the '08 and '09 have the same radio CCC (?) software and functionality? The only difference is the memory buttons that I presume skip to a feature.

Regarding the rod bearings, is it preferred to have the new rod bearings if the mileage is still low? Or do they cause more wear or more likely nasty damage if they fail before getting changed out?
 
21 - 40 of 45 Posts
Top