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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been doing some research and have decided to change the tranny fluid with something that is non-BMW. So it's either Royal Purple or Red Line. Any opinions please.
 

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No!!!! Not this debate again! If you've done research, you know that there are widely divided opinions on this board about tranny fluid. Paranoid types like me go with BMW LTF. Braver souls go with Royal Purple and swear they've not seen any problems (yet). cherrsagai
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I don't think you read my post. I"m not debating whether or not to use BMW LTF. I only want to know what other members opinions are in regards to Royal Purple and Red Line. I will not be using BMW LTF. So if someone out there is using these 2 products, any opinion would be appreciated.
 

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Kind of like posting the "what kind of watch do you wear" question... once again.


Since I am interested, I did a quick search for tranny fluid. There are hundreds of 'opinions' if you'd want to search them out. If you ask folks to re-post you will not get the same info as a thorough search.

Here is one snippet:
There are threads on Redline tranny fluid use. Here's what we know:

1) Getrag specifically warns against the use of alternate lubes in E39 M5 & 540i gearbox.
2) BMW specifically warns against the use of alternate lubes in any E39 gearbox.
3) Redline fluids destroyed similar Getrag 6 speed transmissions used in Supra
5) Redline fluids destroyed Borg Warner T-5 carbon synchros used in Mustang
6) Redline fluids may have damaged ZF transmissions used in C4 Corvette...jury still out with some disagreement. ZF says it will damage them & at least one rebuilder claims he has evidence of this problem.
7) Redline admits their fluid is not compatible with certain Getrag detent bushings after overwhelming evidence and customer backlash.
8) At least two folks who experimented with Redline fluids in a BMW 540i lost their detents.
9) Redline lubricants are not certified for use in any modern street car. They are not tested to meet or exceed any API, European or auto mfr specs.
10) Redline tech's on their 800 hotline will recommend use of Redline lubes in any and all vehicles without any certification, approval or testing.

Factory BMW/Esso fill is specifically optimized and certified for use in M5 E39 transmission. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest it's not the best choice. Synchro engagement "feel" improves when ANY fluid is used that results in more friction. Synchros function better when there's more friction. Parts wear out when there's more friction. Choosing a gear lube by "shift quality/feel" is not wise.

While this post is by lscman, who is 'anti-redline' I agree with his position based my reading and experience- I believe there is more benefit to changing ANY fluid more frequently then there is to a SPECIFIC fluid.

What has made you decide that BMW fluid is no good and a different fluid must be used?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the info. It's quite interesting. The reason I've chosen not to go with the BMW LTF is that from research I've found that the BMW LTF even when new is still notchy when shifting. I'm also planning on changing to a short shifter. I'm trying to find the best fit for the car.
 

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I'd be VERY interested to see any "new BMW LTF" to "new Redline" or "new RP" tests. Plenty of confounded posts (old fluid of one type to new fluid of another type, plus changing shifters at the same time or chaning mounts)

I put in a UUC ssk (evo3) plus the dssr. I am fine with the shifts, I would have to say they are 'notchier' than with the stock, but why would anyone expect anything else?! from a mechanical point of view, a SSK will amplify this sensation. They are undoubtably more precise and faster. I love it.

While I wouldn't refuse a reduction in this sensation (due to fluid?), I just cannot 'drink the cool aid' and toss out the good engineering work of major manufacturers (getrag, BMW, Castrol) for marketing hype and a few posts that 'this new stuff is great'.

But then again, I run dino motor oil in some of my cars! - One with 240k.

Finally, I will change the trans fluid. Prolly every 40k.

Ard
 

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I don't think you read my post.
Yes I did. It said, "Any opinions please."

Anyway, don't think I can help you. I don't know anyone who's switched from fresh LTF to fresh RP or fresh Redline. Even if you put fresh LTF into a car, you will experience a smoothness improvement over old fluid, and you're right, all cars going from stock shifters to SSK will be a bit notchier. I can see why you'd want to want to go to a smoothness improving fluid to offset that. Good luck. cherrsagai
 

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I replaced relatively fresh BMW LTF with RP in my '01 540 (same Getrag tranny as the M5). Mileage at the time probably was in the high teens or low 20s. It helped, I noticed an improvement. That car definitely shifted a little easier than my M5, and both cars had RE short shifters. But I'm sticking with OEM fluid with the M5.
 

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uuc recommends the Redline MT-90, claiming that it reduces gear rattle in those who have installed their clutch system witht he lightweight flywheel.

Any comments?
CT
 

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yes, DON'T use Redline

i put it in a year ago with the UUC clutch -- initially seemed to be an improvement shifting -- but in the last several months 1st gear got very hard to get into

i put in Royal Purple a month ago and it's definitely been getting better

there are a number of posts on the problems of bushings swelling in Getrag transmissions with Redline and i think this is what happened to me
 

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LSCman will likely think I'm nuts, because not only did I change to a progressive (H&R Sport) spring, but I too replaced relatively new BMW LTF with RP in my '00 540, with mileage under 20,000 miles. I was looking for smoother shifting and did the Rogue Tranny mounts at the same time. I did this before all the postings on Redline fluids became available. I relied in large measure on Dave Zeckhausen's recommendation, and Dave has stuck by his recommendation in spite of all the controversy. I have yet to see any reports of failures attributed to RP, so I have not changed back in light of all the questions that have arisen. The change in the feel of the shifter is great.
 

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another data point, i changed out 15k mile bmw gearbox oil for RP, initially i noticed an improvement in the shift quality, but here another 5k down the road, it feels just as notchy as it ever did... at least the rp is cheap enough to change every 5k, if you wanted to!
Mike
 

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another data point, i changed out 15k mile bmw gearbox oil for RP, initially i noticed an improvement in the shift quality, but here another 5k down the road, it feels just as notchy as it ever did... at least the rp is cheap enough to change every 5k, if you wanted to!
All the more reason to stick with OEM fluid, I think. Fresh OEM fluid also improves shift quality at first. It does cost a whole lot, however, so every 50k miles or so would be about right. "Lifetime"? Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
 

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I just looked at a recent service receipt (03/03/05, 61,420 Miles) and noticed that the shop installed Redline 75W-90 Gear Oil and Redline D-4 ATF. Should I be worried and immediately replace both the diff and trans oil or only the trans oil? I have the Evosport 3.45 if that makes any difference. All this negative talk on Redline has me worried...:crying: :crying: I have only put about 1000 miles on the car since the Redline fluids were added.

Help... I will be ordering some BMW Factory fluids tommorrow. What is the name and in what quantity do I need for both the Trans and Diff??

I just read through the main thread on RP and Redline oil and now I am really worried. Hearing how the Supra tranny which is essentially the same as ours was damaged by the Redline, what type of damage could have occured with my tranny. I read that bushings can swell over time, but mine has only had the Redline in for about two months.
 

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Ducman69 said:
I just looked at a recent service receipt (03/03/05, 61,420 Miles) and noticed that the shop installed Redline 75W-90 Gear Oil and Redline D-4 ATF. Should I be worried and immediately replace both the diff and trans oil or only the trans oil? I have the Evosport 3.45 if that makes any difference. All this negative talk on Redline has me worried...:crying: :crying: I have only put about 1000 miles on the car since the Redline fluids were added.

Help... I will be ordering some BMW Factory fluids tommorrow. What is the name and in what quantity do I need for both the Trans and Diff??

I just read through the main thread on RP and Redline oil and now I am really worried. Hearing how the Supra tranny which is essentially the same as ours was damaged by the Redline, what type of damage could have occured with my tranny. I read that bushings can swell over time, but mine has only had the Redline in for about two months.
The Supra tranny is a slightly older, heavier design and there's a fair chance it employs different detent parts. BMW drivetrain expert Jim Blanton never had issues with Red Line in Getrag 6spds used in BMW cars. I never claimed Red Line will destroy your transmission. There's simply no evidence showing it's fully-compatible and better than OEM fill. Shift quality is a false indicator. Some folks are optimistic & like to assume good things...other's are wary & don't take much for granted.

The Maserati transmission is the same.
 

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Lscman said:
The Supra tranny is a slightly older, heavier design and there's a fair chance it employs different detent parts. BMW drivetrain expert Jim Blanton never had issues with Red Line in Getrag 6spds used in BMW cars. I never claimed Red Line will destroy your transmission. There's simply no evidence showing it's fully-compatible and better than OEM fill. Shift quality is a false indicator. Some folks are optimistic & like to assume good things...other's are wary & don't take much for granted.
Lscman, I was hoping you would post a reply. I have read your posts in the past and trust you more than most techs out there, even though we have not met. Your answers seem reasonable and very credible. I only wish I had read your earlier threads on this subject before having my tech put in the Redline Diff and Tranny Fluid.

What is your opinion on the potential detrimental effect the Redline fluids can have on my trans during the past 2 months since it was installed. I will have it replaced within the week with the factory fluid. Is the correct factory fluid BMW LTF? Also, is the Redline 75W-90 acceptable for the Evosport 3.45 diff or should I replace that also with factory fill. Thanks in advance.
 

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Ducman69 said:
What is your opinion on the potential detrimental effect the Redline fluids can have on my trans during the past 2 months since it was installed. I will have it replaced within the week with the factory fluid. Is the correct factory fluid BMW LTF? Also, is the Redline 75W-90 acceptable for the Evosport 3.45 diff or should I replace that also with factory fill. Thanks in advance.
Wrt the trans, several folks have used Redline for quite a while in the BMW 6spd application. Toyota-Getrag DA bushing swelling stops when non-compatible fluid is removed. This bushing damage is NOT reverseable, but....if a tranny has no symptoms and the suspect fluid is removed, further swelling stops.

Wrt the differential, Redline makes good gear lubes that are safe for hypoid use. The problem is that Redline R&D, testing & certification is not adequate for extended street use. It is approved for no vehicles made since 1950. This means the fluid may not remain stable and properly lubricate over the long haul. These fluids offer max RWHP as they are tailored for racers. If you tried running it for 30K mi, it could break down. It is a better race lube for cars that see yearly fluid changes. You are better to stick with an API certified & approved lubricant for street cars. There are over 105 lubricant mfrs that offer API certified lubricants for street cars, but Redline is not one of them. All auto mfrs require API certified oil and hypoid differential fluids. The Redline differential fluid will in no way hurt your car in the short term, although I would prefer to use an API 75W-140 fluid, as specified by BMW. Certain Corvette and Viper also use the new 75W-140 variety.
 

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I switched fresh (less than 100 miles) BMW LTF with RP tranny oil and I personally didn't notice an improvement in feel, or rattle noise for that matter, but that's another story. I did feel an improvement between old BMW LTF oil and new. I read a lot of threads on this issue and came to the conclusion that sticking with BMW oil is the wisest choice given the unproven performance of alternate oils for the getrag tranny. The reason I eventually used RP is that the rattle noise from the UUC light-weight flywheel was so bad that I was willing to try anything to dampen it some, but to no avail, so I will most likely switch back to BMW oil. Definitely don’t use Redline since there is a possibility that it might cause swelling of the non-metal components in our trannys, as it did with the Supra getrag. The only benefit I've noticed with RP is that it is very cheap in price. Oh, and it has a cool color !

 
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