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People keep saying it because it was built around the V10 and SMG combo... the mt was a compromise for the US market. This has been documented for years.

PS the SMG is not an automatic
^ If its got a- D next to the shifter and two peddles ONLY then sorry to burst your bubble its an automatic :wroom:
 

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it's a manual with a computer controlled clutch pedal

there is no torque converter... hence... not an automatic

am i being trolled?
You are right it is a manual with the computer controlling it but here is the def of an Automatic:

An automatic (also called automatic gearbox, or auto transmission) is one type of motor vehicle transmission that can automatically change gear ratios as the vehicle moves, freeing the driver from having to shift gears manually. Most automatic transmissions have a defined set of gear ranges, often with a parking pawl feature that locks the output shaft of the transmission.
 

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People keep saying it because it was built around the V10 and SMG combo... the mt was a compromise for the US market. This has been documented for years.

PS the SMG is not an automatic
Is it truly "documented," or is it urban myth that the 6MT was an "afterthought" or "compromise." Just a simple question, not looking to ruffle any SMG feathers here.

I chose to go with the 6MT due to the undeniable "documented" issues with SMG.
Due my nature and personality, I would worry about the red and yellow cogs with SMG...it's just the way I am.

I find it odd that some appear to have this disdain for the 6MT's, and that those who have it are idiots for purchasing an inferior M5.
At the end of the day, both versions have their positives, so give it a rest.
 

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Ohh don't take it that way for me its all in good fun. If someone takes offense I guess maybe the principle needs to step in.

The MT was offered after complaints that it was not going to be offered in NA market; hence it is the only market that the MT is offered. We are the largest sports car/luxury car market so NA has a lot of sway; well most the time.

If you read or watch anything around the development of the car the SMG was indeed the original design intent. There is nothing wrong with the MT, but its gearing is not perfect at all shift points (not my words, but from print) were not talking a difference that most any driver could tell the difference. The SMG gear was developed at the peak of the power points of the V10. If you shift the SMG at its perfect shift point it is the most brutal shift I have ever felt in a car.

You also get the RPM match with the SMG that some can do with a MT, but unless you are a professional race car driver and even then the consistency of the RPM match on the down shift I don't think could be matched against the SMG.

In the end I like them both, but this is my first SMG and after learning it I would not go back to a manual; well not in this car. My next though I could not tell you as it depends on the car, but as an engineer I like to taste the car as the original engineer intended it to be consumed!


Cheers!
 

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I find it odd that some appear to have this disdain for the 6MT's, and that those who have it are idiots for purchasing an inferior M5.
At the end of the day, both versions have their positives, so give it a rest.
No disdain meant here. Its personal preference, like I've already said.

Whats the difference, the 6MT owners are all over the SMG owners acting like we're sallies for having an "automatic", it seems pretty obvious some SMG owners will point out the MT is slower and not of the original design.

People shouldn't be so sensitive.
 

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I'm not all over an SMG owner for having an automatic, I just feel you're risking lots of issues and repair bills by going with it. I also find it ironic that the trans which was NOT designed for the car is many, many times more reliable than the one that was!
 

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I just like to poke fun at Fuddy cause I know he can take it. I race a SMG and the launch was amazing it did sound like the car was exploding when he shift gears but it took off faster then I expected. I love my manual would I buy it again probably not. The reason why cause being in the military has broken my body and stop and go traffic is a lot of pain on my knees. I would buy the SMG if I was to buy another E60 and it would be a 2009 or 2010 cause those are the years they sold it in CB.
 

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I just like to poke fun at Fuddy cause I know he can take it. I race a SMG and the launch was amazing it did sound like the car was exploding when he shift gears but it took off faster then I expected. I love my manual would I buy it again probably not. The reason why cause being in the military has broken my body and stop and go traffic is a lot of pain on my knees. I would buy the SMG if I was to buy another E60 and it would be a 2009 or 2010 cause those are the years they sold it in CB.
:biggrin:
 

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I've had my 6MT for just over a year (it's a 2008). No major issues other than selecting wheels and tires and visiting lots of gas stations.

I am 100% sure the SMG drivers can out-accelerate me. I don't care. I have a sh*t-ton of fun driving this car and wouldn't trade it for the world. It's beautiful, it drives crisp, and I love it.
 

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Is it truly "documented," or is it urban myth that the 6MT was an "afterthought" or "compromise." Just a simple question, not looking to ruffle any SMG feathers here.
It wasn't truly an "afterthought." It was planned very early on in the production of the E60 M5 that the USA would get a manual gearbox. I talked with Larry Koch at the Oktoberfest in 2005, and he had lots of stories to tell about the 6MT cars at that time. It wasn't going to be available in the 2006 cars, but it was well into design and testing two years before it was available. I would imagine if they had it to do over again, they would put in the transmission oil cooler design similar to what is used on the E9x M3 6MT.

On the SMG subject, many years later a birdie (not the above) told me that if you looked at S85 SMG cars that BMWNA has sold and then had to be towed to dealers with SMG problems, they represent the highest percentage of a car model sold that breakdown requiring towing in BMWNA history. I don't know the specifics, but I wouldn't doubt that the business case for the E60 M5 was severely strained once cars where sold as warranty expenses have to have run way ahead of what product planning expected.
 

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i think what kills the SMG has been the launch control. I heard from Brian Jessel service manager in Vancouver that they would bring cars in with smg issues with 90 launches recorded on the computer history. ofcourse when u suddenly release 500hp into ur drive-train it will break a thing or two. I bought my 2007 SMG in 2011 and have been driving it every day since. I have taken it to the track and I also drive it pretty hard. When i bought the car I asked them to change the tranny oil and last year again I changed the tranny and diff oil (put red line). I have not had any issues with SMG. even though I love the manual transmissions, I prefer the SMG in this case because it serves the purpose. We have to remember M5 is not a full sport car. Its a sport luxury sedan. it has to be a luxury car while handling well. for example while in traffic it is much easier to drive smg in manual mode than a real manual gear box. u just change the gear without pushing and releasing the clutch again and again. I personally never put the car in auto mode and it works perfectly in every situation.
Manual gearbox, Auto or SMG, cars are like women. if u dont take care of them they will leave u stranded in the middle of nowhere!! Drive safely!!
my 2 cents.
 

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I knew was on the board somewhere; here is original press release that was under most memorable threads:

Interesting reading after all this time and known issues now!

The new sequential M transmission: Shifting gears even faster with
the seven-speed SMG gearbox.

The concept of a high-revving engine only proves successful if the engine is combined with a transmission that matches the prodigious performance

and translates the torque made available by the engine into optimum forward thrust by means of a short overall transmission ratio.



The seven-speed sequential M gearbox (SMG) is exactly what is needed

to ideally transfer the power of the V10 engine to the drive train and finally to the wheels. With this gearbox, BMW M is the one and only manufacturer world-wide to market a seven-speed sequential gearbox with drivelogic function. Nonetheless, the new seven-speed gearbox is by no means an extended six-speed transmission. Instead, it is a completely novel gearbox, which has been designed exclusively for use in the new M5. Even more

highly perfected than the previous six-speed transmission, the seven-speed

SMG gearbox enables extremely fast manual gear changes as well as comfortable cruising thanks to the automated gearshift mode.



The new transmission is technically designed to handle a torque of up to

550 Newton metres and engine speeds of up to 8,500 rpm. This gives

the transmission sufficient reserves to ensure reliable operation throughout the new M5’s entire lifecycle, which is further further enhanced by a separate oil cooling system for the high-performance engine



Even closer speed gaps than with the six-speed gearbox.



Compared to a six-speed gearbox, seven gear steps offer even more reduced engine speed and torque gaps when changing gears. As forward thrust is closely related to high engine speeds, these reduced gaps assist the new M5 in achieving awesome acceleration.

The SMG transmission stands for sublime shifting pleasure.

It goes without saying that the new seven-speed SMG gearbox offers all the advantages inherent in a sequential gearbox concept: gears are changed using the gearshift lever on the centre console or the paddles on the steering wheel. The driver does not have to press down the clutch and gear changes are possible even with the throttle foot flat on the floor. As opposed to an automatic transmission, the SMG transmission does not require an energy-consuming and performance-impairing torque converter.

As a matter of principle, all gears of the SMG transmission are shifted electro-hydraulically. The SMG gearbox features shift-by-wire technology, which has its origins in aerospace synergism and by which gears are changed in the fraction of a second without a mechanical link. In contrast to previous six-speed SMG transmission, the new M5’s SMG hydraulic unit and the actuators have been integrated into the transmission housing. If a gear change request is made, the control unit actuates the respective magnetic valves which control the overall system’s hydraulics. As a next step, the hydraulic oil with a high operating pressure of up to 90 bar flows swiftly via a magnetic valve into the clutch master cylinder to open the clutch. Then, using solenoid valves in the hydraulic unit, four hydraulic cylinders in the actuator are switched, which carry out the actual shifting process by means of four separate gearshift rods. When shifting down, the engine double-declutches automatically.

The new SMG boosts speed by 20 percent.

The previous second-generation SMG transmission was already rapid-shifting, and, to top it all, the new, third SMG generation accelerates the process of shifting gears by another 20 percent: for a gearbox of this kind, the shift speed is unrivalled and the advantages for the M5 driver are as follows: gear changes are extremely smooth and effected at a speed even the most experienced driver could not attain, thus making the inevitable power flow interruptions when changing gears hardly noticeable. The M5 delivers an almost jerk-free performance when accelerating from a standstill to its top speed. The driver gets much enjoyment out of shifting gears as SMG elicits a true “Formula 1 feeling”.

Changing gears with an SMG gearbox also makes a valuable contribution to traffic safety: as shifting always involves the same level of speed and

precision and is therefore absolutely reproducible, the driver does not have to concentrate that much on the process, meaning that the SMG gearbox promotes precise, safe and relaxed driving.

Drivelogic: the driver determines the SMG’s gear change characteristics.

Thanks to the SMG’s drivelogic function, the driver can choose from eleven gear change options, which enable him to adapt the SMG’s characteristics to his very own style of motoring. These programs differ from each other in the pre-selected gear change time: the higher the selected program, the engine speed and torque, the shorter the shift times.

Six of the eleven gear shift options can be pre-selected in the sequential manual gearbox mode (S mode), the spectrum ranging from balanced dynamic to very sporty. With the gearbox in the S mode, the driver always shifts gears manually, and the transmission does not at any time intervene in the shifting process.

Launch Control: moving up to maximum speed with full performance.


With the gearbox in S mode, the driver can profit from the Launch Control function, which is a complement to the purist, sporty S6 driving program.

The Launch Control function enables “rookie racing drivers” to make a perfect standing start in order to maximise the initial acceleration. This function requires the prior deactivation of DSC.

The aim of the Launch Control function is to relieve the driver of shifting gears, giving him more freedom to concentrate on his actual job of driving. When the car is stationary, the only thing the driver has to do is to flip the selector lever forward and keep it in that position. If he now fully depresses the accelerator pedal, the engine is automatically set to its optimum starting speed. If the driver releases the selector lever, the M5 is accelerated with the ideal amount of slip, provided the driver keeps the accelerator pedal fully depressed. The driver does not have to change gears until the M5 reaches its peak speed – the SMG gearbox with drivelogic automatically shifts through the seven gears and changes from one gear to the next gear shortly before maximum engine speed is attained.

As is the case with all driving programs, a telltale in the cockpit informs the driver of the gear currently in mesh.

Automatic gearbox – one that can hold its own even on the race track.

Five of the eleven gear shift options of the Drivelogic function are available in the so-called automated D mode. If this mode is activated, gears are changed automatically, depending on the driving program selected, the driving situation, the speed and the position of the accelerator pedal. With the D1 driving program selected, for example, the gearbox sets off in second gear and ensures particularly delicate and smooth engagement of the clutch, this being of great help in wintry conditions.

Although having opted for automatic gearchanging, the driver can influence the process by, for example, releasing the accelerator pedal slowly, thus determining, also in D mode, the time when the gearbox shifts up. In turn, by depressing the accelerator pedal all the way down to the floor, he is able to effect fast downchanges. In S as well as in D mode, the gearbox automatically shifts down to the first gear as soon as the car is slowed to a halt. All the driver has to do to set the car in motion again is to step on the gas pedal.

Special functions for increased safety and comfort.

The seven-speed SMG gearbox in the M5 not only helps the driver to squeeze the most out of the engine’s prodigious performance but also offers a host of safety features. In critical situations, when shifting down on a slippery road for example, the gearbox opens the clutch in a split second in order to prevent the car from suddenly swerving out of control as a result of excessive drag torque at the driven wheels.

A further practical SMG feature is the so-called climbing assistant, which has up to now been featured exclusively in the M3 and allows for hill starts with virtually no roll-back. This effect is achieved by brake system intervention and can be taken advantage of in the sequential as well as the automated mode, irrespective of the direction of travel. The function is activated by applying the foot brake. As soon as the driver releases the brake pedal, the M5 is able to set off without rolling back in an uncontrolled manner.

The intelligent transmission on steep gradients.


The so-called hill detection adjusts the shift points on gradients and descents. This prevents gear hunting when driving uphill. When going downhill, the hill detection holds the lower gears for longer in order to make effective use of the engine’s braking power. In addition, with the gearbox in D mode, gear selection is adjusted to the steepness of the gradient.

These functions are only possible because the SMG control unit and the engine management system in the M5 closely communicate with each other via a particularly powerful CAN data bus, which connects the MS S65 engine management system with the SMG control unit, which is linked up to

twelve redundant SMG sensors. In this way, the SMG control unit receives from the MS S65 the relevant data on the accelerator position, wheel and engine speeds, temperatures, steering angle and key memory. Moreover,

the SMG and DSC directly communicate with one another.
 

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No doubt the SMG gives you the F1 "experience".

The challenge, for me, I don't have the F1 pit crew nor the budget for any SMG teardowns/rebuilds/repairs.

At the end of the day...it really is hit or miss. I think the afterthought was BMW not giving all of us the F1 budgets to maintain our Beasts! :tonquesmilie:
 
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