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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, my first post, which actually happens to be a repost from bimmerforums. but anyway here are my impressions of the f10 550i x

So I picked up my 2011 550i Xdrive with Msport, comfort pack, active/vent seats, P2, HUD in Sophisto Grey (for all u euros out there)/Dark Graphite met with Black Dakota/Anthracite interior after saying goodbye to my 2010 535i X

only drove it from the dealership, then around a few twisties in North Caldwell, then back into the city.

the first impression is obvious, this is a beefy brawny bigger car. it is more substantial in every way. there are puts and takes to that, but for me, the trade is fair. this is a space aged automobile that is BRAND NEW, the E60 was long in the tooth and though I loved my 535i, it just won’t measure up to the new car.

here's what I won’t miss of the E60 (and some other observations)

- the teeth jarring pothole hits that the old car experienced. in any mode (comfort, normal, sport), this car eats up those annoying bumps that make you feel like you just cracked a rim.

- the seats, even the manipulatable sport seats in the E60 do not hold a candle to the new sport seats, ESPECIALLY the perforated dakota, which is softer than the old Dakota and tougher than the new Nappa. I believe that the perforated dakota (get active seat/ventilated pack!) is the sweet spot of comfort and durability for this car. they feel GREAT.

- the "slap dash" interior of the e60 that you could tell was on its last legs. the interior of the new car is very very understated and very ergonomic. in reality, there is more on the inside but it is much less "busy" than the e60. special mention to the driver's command center and left/right blinkers being in easy view. I don’t think I ever saw the blinkers with my steering wheel set up in the E60

- the solid feel in corners with the system set to sport mode. full disclosure: this is my first experience with the proper sport pack, so my basis of comparison is suspect. but in the brief time I threw "Gretta" (my wife reserves rights to name the car) into some twisties, I was amazed at its uprightness, and eagerness to drive aggressively.

- the "jumpiness" of the previous cars drive train, as the new trans is very smooth and always seems to find the right gear. I was essentially idling at 65 on rt 3 on the way into the tunnel. e60 was spirited but sometimes temperamental. which is the main reason the old 535i (HPFP anyone?) had to go back.

- the idrive system, even in its last iteration in the old e60 is by no means as slick or well set up as the new car. kudos to the cover art when attached to a ipod, kudos also to the user manual being right on the idrive system as well.

now for the main point:

I guess I am not what you would call an "enthusiast" which as near as I can tell means that if a car has power anything or computers assisting in decisions or steering assist etc etc, than it has lost its soul. I would assume that the epitome of the "enthusiast" automobile is the E39 m5. is that right?
I drove that car for a summer, it was fantastic in its own way, it made you forget that you were driving a sedan or even a very good coupe. it was a supercar, the gate was sublime. and it was tinny and rattley and the shocks were not as tight or at least were not when I drove it (50g+ miles) and its radio stunk and the navigation was a joke. but boy could that thing steer! yippee!

but as bob dylan says, the times, they are a changing. this whining about the 5 series "losing it's soul" is more an indictment of the car industry generally (heavier cars with more computer input, turbo engines to mitigate environmental impact, push to ergonomically reduce power use, single platform strategy which moved manufacture of the F10 to Dingolfing, the magic of "info-tainment") than on the new car itself.

in fact I think most on this board sympathizes with this "purists lament", but these people will always be at the margin. they have been at the margin since the business and technology (and a quest for greater profitability, to be sure) began moving away from them and towards the future. for those who just can't get over it, I’m sure there are boutique auto companies like pagani, koenigsegg, and that little outfit from Modena to keep them satisfied. or maybe even those little mitsu/subaru burners. they have been pushed to the margin, but all is not lost for them. either they have to be very rich or learn to drive something from Asia. And either way, the e39 is dead. Long live the King.

ALL THAT SAID, let's talk about the steering. here's the part about not believing the hype.
I have the Xdrive version, and it was delivered today, so maybe that combo (mapping issues resolved, along with the fact that this is the hydraulic/electric tiller) can start to clean up this numbness-spookiness-vagueness on center BS that I have been reading about.

there is no numbness in the steering, there is no vagueness. this car is as connected to the road as my E60 was. I feel the bumps and the undulations in every mode, and it improves as you dial up the tautness (I think that the dynamic damper/ARS is another must have option if you can swing it.). those that actually have had problems, I can sympathize with. but I just don’t get it. I drove my e60 this morning and my f10 this afternoon. I can honestly say that the difference is negligible and that difference is probably best explained by the extra few hundred pounds in the f10.

I think that the writers at Car and Driver and Motor Trend and wherever else that are taking pot shots at the steering are a bunch of 20 something pimply kids who can't afford a fully optioned Infiniti M and drive decked out 3 series.

or they are old school 40 year old purists who think that the best thing that ever happened to Bavarian sports cars has not been built in over 7 years ago (that's when they stopped building the e39 right?). these are probably the same kind of people who think that there will be no better album ever made than.. oh I don't know, Led Zepp IV.

anyway here are a few pics from this afternoon. I love the sophisto, flecks of gold when the sun is out and black as you like when its night. thanks for reading my ramblings.
 

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Congrats on the new car. Do you have any interior shots?
 

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Nice car and thanks for the post sounds interesting...I will be going from the E39 M5 to the F10 M5 so I will see.....
 

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I agree with You that the steering on the 550ixDrive is very good.
The main reason for this I think, is that it´s a " normal " hydraulic rack and pinion power steering with servotronic.
Not the electro hydraulic ( EPS ) variant that you find on all non-xDrive F10/F11 models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I will be posting interior pics when i am out in the country today. Driving north from Manhattan up to a place called Pine Plains, which is very close to Rhinebeck and Saugerties (where the Rockerfeller's had their summer retreat). going to be my first long drive, back with pics tonight!
 

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Test drove the 550i Xdrive at the dealership a few days ago - and I agree with you completely. There is no vagueness in the steering or numbness off center - the car is very direct and responsive. Very enjoyable to drive - and I wouldn't have it any other way.
BMW did a great job with Xdrive -

For the marginal increase in cost - it's worth every penny
Now all you need is the Dinan chip - and bump up the horsepower a tad

Fabulious car- the 550i M Sport
The F10 M5 will be insane -
But will it have Xdrive ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Test drove the 550i Xdrive at the dealership a few days ago - and I agree with you completely. There is no vagueness in the steering or numbness off center - the car is very direct and responsive. Very enjoyable to drive - and I wouldn't have it any other way.
BMW did a great job with Xdrive -

For the marginal increase in cost - it's worth every penny
Now all you need is the Dinan chip - and bump up the horsepower a tad

Fabulious car- the 550i M Sport
The F10 M5 will be insane -
But will it have Xdrive ?
Thanks a lot! have you guys done MPG work on stage 1? will my mileage go to single digits if i opt for the upgrade? it is very enticing, i will admit.
 

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Thanks a lot! have you guys done MPG work on stage 1? will my mileage go to single digits if i opt for the upgrade? it is very enticing, i will admit.

For the most part - Dinan have their stuff together - although not everyone is a Dinan fan.
By the time the F10 M5 comes out - they will have the intake, exhaust done for the 550i-
and I'm willing to bet they're working on an oil cooler and intercooler as we speak.

Should be very interesting :cool:

I doubt your gas mileage would suffer to any great extent if you went with the Dinan chip.

The chip is definitely on my list, if I go the M Sport route
 

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Great review. The M5 will not be 4WD, Im quite sure about that. And no Xdrive option either I beleive. Not that it would be really a bad idea to have it optional, would be great in terms of covering the competition and off the line traction but it goes against the M5 legacy.

Test drove the 550i Xdrive at the dealership a few days ago - and I agree with you completely. There is no vagueness in the steering or numbness off center - the car is very direct and responsive. Very enjoyable to drive - and I wouldn't have it any other way.
BMW did a great job with Xdrive -

For the marginal increase in cost - it's worth every penny
Now all you need is the Dinan chip - and bump up the horsepower a tad

Fabulious car- the 550i M Sport
The F10 M5 will be insane -
But will it have Xdrive ?
 

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G Not that it would be really a bad idea to have it optional, would be great in terms of covering the competition and off the line traction but it goes against the M5 legacy.
What exactly is the M5 legacy ?

In my opinion BMW gradually destroying the hard earned heritage of these fine cars..:grrrr:

BMW created this market segment and is now subject to the whims of the car buying public...following the vision impaired trail left by the likes of Mercedes and Audi.

I fully understand all the corporate issues, return on investment, shareholder value, shared platforms for cost reductions..blah, blah, i can't take this Blah !!!

...But...in the beginning these cars were not made for the general public nor was there an existing market....BMW created the market and enthusiasts followed. All this twin turbo X bulldozer crap makes me sick to my bones..:crying:.

The design brief and the fundamental powertrain philosophy was " naturally aspirated high revving engines "...to quote a famous M engineer.....now what are we in for ?

I have an E34 M5 Touring and the kick I get out of that car cannot be described...I also have an E60 but, as good as it is, doesn't provide the kind of driver involvement I crave.

The new M5 will be a winner no doubt and we should all face the fact that we ( well, at least some of us ! ) are a dying breed and market forces dictate the decisions that M now makes.

I'll be in the market very soon for another M car and i'll surely go for a 2010 E60 M5......X5M...X6M...TT Auto for an M5 ??? What on earth are they thinking of ? :dunno:
 

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I currently own 07 M5, and have been looking at the 550xi as a possible replacement. i am faced with paying for extended maintenance and/or cpo extended warranty, or buying a new car. if i do get rid of the M5, I would like to consolidate my summer and winter cars into one, and since there will not be an allwheel drive variant of the M5, I an seriously looking at the 550xi, with the hope that I will get close to the same performance as my M5, and have the possibility of doing a chip and exhaust, to get it moving a bit more. Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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What exactly is the M5 legacy ?

In my opinion BMW gradually destroying the hard earned heritage of these fine cars..:grrrr:

BMW created this market segment and is now subject to the whims of the car buying public...following the vision impaired trail left by the likes of Mercedes and Audi.

I fully understand all the corporate issues, return on investment, shareholder value, shared platforms for cost reductions..blah, blah, i can't take this Blah !!!

...But...in the beginning these cars were not made for the general public nor was there an existing market....BMW created the market and enthusiasts followed. All this twin turbo X bulldozer crap makes me sick to my bones..:crying:.

The design brief and the fundamental powertrain philosophy was " naturally aspirated high revving engines "...to quote a famous M engineer.....now what are we in for ?

I have an E34 M5 Touring and the kick I get out of that car cannot be described...I also have an E60 but, as good as it is, doesn't provide the kind of driver involvement I crave.

The new M5 will be a winner no doubt and we should all face the fact that we ( well, at least some of us ! ) are a dying breed and market forces dictate the decisions that M now makes.

I'll be in the market very soon for another M car and i'll surely go for a 2010 E60 M5......X5M...X6M...TT Auto for an M5 ??? What on earth are they thinking of ? :dunno:
Could not have said this better myself. I wish the head of the ///M division read this post.


afc1
 

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What exactly is the M5 legacy ?

In my opinion BMW gradually destroying the hard earned heritage of these fine cars..:grrrr:

BMW created this market segment and is now subject to the whims of the car buying public...following the vision impaired trail left by the likes of Mercedes and Audi.

I fully understand all the corporate issues, return on investment, shareholder value, shared platforms for cost reductions..blah, blah, i can't take this Blah !!!

...But...in the beginning these cars were not made for the general public nor was there an existing market....BMW created the market and enthusiasts followed. All this twin turbo X bulldozer crap makes me sick to my bones..:crying:.

The design brief and the fundamental powertrain philosophy was " naturally aspirated high revving engines "...to quote a famous M engineer.....now what are we in for ?

I have an E34 M5 Touring and the kick I get out of that car cannot be described...I also have an E60 but, as good as it is, doesn't provide the kind of driver involvement I crave.

The new M5 will be a winner no doubt and we should all face the fact that we ( well, at least some of us ! ) are a dying breed and market forces dictate the decisions that M now makes.

I'll be in the market very soon for another M car and i'll surely go for a 2010 E60 M5......X5M...X6M...TT Auto for an M5 ??? What on earth are they thinking of ? :dunno:
First off, I'm with you.

That said, I had a revelation recently. The 1 series has taken the former place of the 3 series, the 3 has replaced the 5, the 5 has replaced the 7, and the 7 is bigger than ever. You want a "new" e34 M5? Might I suggest the e90 M3 sedan? High revving, NA, bigger than the e34 in some dimensions (barely smaller in others), slightly lighter than the e34. Likewise the 1M is almost spec for spec with the e46 M3 (albeit the engine isn't a high rever).

This won't last long, as they're switching to turbo everything (boo), but right now you really can get a "new" e34 M5, and it won't cost you M5 money :D

(similar thing happening with the X3, which has very similar dimensions to the outgoing (e53) X5, and the X5 went up a size class (now with 3 seat row possibility)... so then they had to make an X1 for the old X3 spot.
 

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First off, I'm with you.

That said, I had a revelation recently. The 1 series has taken the former place of the 3 series, the 3 has replaced the 5, the 5 has replaced the 7, and the 7 is bigger than ever. You want a "new" e34 M5? Might I suggest the e90 M3 sedan? High revving, NA, bigger than the e34 in some dimensions (barely smaller in others), slightly lighter than the e34. Likewise the 1M is almost spec for spec with the e46 M3 (albeit the engine isn't a high rever).

This won't last long, as they're switching to turbo everything (boo), but right now you really can get a "new" e34 M5, and it won't cost you M5 money :D

(similar thing happening with the X3, which has very similar dimensions to the outgoing (e53) X5, and the X5 went up a size class (now with 3 seat row possibility)... so then they had to make an X1 for the old X3 spot.
I've also done this analysis and posted it earlier on, BMW has taken the cars to rediculous size levels and actually hurt their bottom line:




Just thought it would be fun to see how our beloved 5 series has evolved from a sports sedan to a luxury cruiser...


Many believe the F10 is the reincarnation of the E39, but that couldnt be further from the truth.



E39 2002 540i
Wheelbase 2830 mm 111.4 in

Track front 1516 mm 59.7 in
rear 1530 mm 60.2 in
Length 4775 mm 188 in
Width 1800 mm 70.9 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in


Kerb weight 1705 kg 3759 lb



E60 2005 550i


Wheelbase 2888 mm 113.7 in

Track front 1558 mm 61.3 in
rear 1582 mm 62.3 in
Length 4841 mm 190.6 in
Width 1846 mm 72.7 in
Height 1468 mm 57.8 in


Kerb weight 1735 kg 3825 lb


F10 2011 550i


Wheelbase 2968 mm 116.9

Track front 1600 mm 63.0in
rear 1627 mm 64.1in
Length 193.1in
Width 1860 mm 73.2in
Height 1464 mm 57.6in


Kerb weight 4376lbs


In looking at the numbers, the E39 to E60 was a rather smooth transition to a larger class vehicle, but at the same time, retained its weight with minimal gains (66lb increase) due to the larger dimensions.

But, when we look at the E60 to F10, the numbers show a stark contrast for a car in the same class/segment...More than 3inches in wheelbase, more than 550lbs heavier!

And in the phantom comparisons of the E39 to F10, where some propose that those that loved the E39 will flock to the F10 now because of the less controversial design elements, those E39 folks will be in for a real shock when they get behind the wheel...the F10 is 5.5 inches longer in wheelbase, and 617 more pounds! I would like to hear from anyone that has an E39 that drove the F10 back to back to get their feelings on this increase in mass.


Now, in looking back in time, 1998, the E38 7er:

E38 '98 740i

Wheelbase 2930 mm 115.4 in

Track front 1552 mm 61.1 in
rear 1568 mm 61.7 in
Length 4984 mm 196.2 in
Width 1862 mm 73.3 in
Height 1435 mm 56.5 in


Kerb weight 1885 kg 4156 lb


So, the F10 has a longer wheelbase and weighs 220lbs more that a 7er just 10 years removed!


And even comparing to the E65:


E65 2001 745i



Wheelbase 2990 mm 117.7 in

Track front 1586 mm 62.4 in
rear 1590 mm 62.6 in
Length 5029 mm 198.0 in
Width 1902 mm 74.9 in
Height 1492 mm 58.7 in


Kerb weight 1945 kg 4288 lb


Just 0.8 of an inch differentiates the F10 from the E65 in wheelbase, and still, the F10 weighs 98 lbs more!


So, while no one argues or would argue that the F10 is not a refined luxury sedan, it has grown to proportions that take it out of its own class size, and ultimately has killed the notion that the 5 series is a Sports saloon, its a full size luxury vehicle with lots of power, and it certainly is BIGGER than your Daddy's 7 Series.



So whats left for a 4 door Sports saloon from BMW??? Leaving out the Gran Coupe since it will be big for sure, (perhaps bigger than F10) that only leaves one model...Looking at the current E90 which has grown as well over the past decade, one can deduce that the F30 will grow approx to the exact size dimensions as the former E39 5 series, just add a couple of inches to the wheelbase and about 200lbs, and its a near match...



2010 E90 335i



Wheelbase 2760 mm 108.7 in

Track front 1500 mm 59.1 in
rear 1529 mm 60.2 in
Length 4531 mm 178.4 in
Width 1817 mm 71.5 in
Height 1421 mm 55.9 in


Kerb weight 1625 kg 3583 lb

And the sad news about the F30 is that supposedly M has already decided NOT to make a 4door M3 due to the low sales of the E90 M3 in favor of a 3series GT M model, so there may not be any future agile, 4door, sports saloon available from M




You cant argue with the numbers, they are what they are, believe it, or not. :byebye:
 
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