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I've heard rumours that the M6 will have 550 HP and/or that the M5 will be 'upgraded' after the first year or two. I've also heard that there is no way they would introduce a 500 HP engine in the 'M cars' and then 'obsolete' it with a 550 HP version this quickly.

Anyone have any information on this subject? Would have been a great question for Gustav to ask...
 

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Nowack will have it in May. N600 will come after that. Our experience here is that some cars will have close to that and others not. Nowack have still the stronest M5 E39 today according to Kelleners who dynoed alot of M5s.
 

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Wolverine said:
I've heard rumours that the M6 will have 550 HP and/or that the M5 will be 'upgraded' after the first year or two. I've also heard that there is no way they would introduce a 500 HP engine in the 'M cars' and then 'obsolete' it with a 550 HP version this quickly.

Anyone have any information on this subject? Would have been a great question for Gustav to ask...
It doesn´t make sense to introduce in only two years the M5 with 550 hp. BMW would make all M5 buyers with 500 hp very angry. We here in Germany know the way to keep the customers satisifed over a long time.

I would predict the following:

2004 - 2008 507 hp M5 an d M6
2008 - 2010 550 HP M6 CSL
2006 600 PS in a new Super sports car
> 2010 next M5 and M6 would get 550 HP in 6-7 years
2008 2 years after the introduction of the new X5 a X5M with 500 HP
2009 a M7 with 550 HP (the new 7-series model)

Greetings

Adnan
 

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mumbasic said:
It doesn´t make sense to introduce in only two years the M5 with 550 hp. BMW would make all M5 buyers with 500 hp very angry. We here in Germany know the way to keep the customers satisifed over a long time.

I would predict the following:

2004 - 2008 507 hp M5 an d M6
2008 - 2010 550 HP M6 CSL
2006 600 PS in a new Super sports car
> 2010 next M5 and M6 would get 550 HP in 6-7 years
2008 2 years after the introduction of the new X5 a X5M with 500 HP
2009 a M7 with 550 HP (the new 7-series model)

Greetings

Adnan
I agree with the first 2 speculations about the M5/M6 and M6 CSL, but you must have very, very good insight to speculate about the supercar, 2010 M5/M6, X5M and even the M7. What motivated you to go that far into the future?
 

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How strong is the box cause I seem to remember reading on one of the posts that it may prove to be the limiting factor for tuners or am I just way off the mark. Would it be feasible for tuners to beef up the current 6 spd box and fit it to the new E60?
 

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Correct. 550 HP max. But it all has to do with longevity hmmm



graeme_t84 said:
How strong is the box cause I seem to remember reading on one of the posts that it may prove to be the limiting factor for tuners or am I just way off the mark. Would it be feasible for tuners to beef up the current 6 spd box and fit it to the new E60?
 

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Of course, there is often a difference between what the manufacturer SAYS something can do or withstand and the realities of its abilities. Look at the current trans. It was rated by BMW MUCH lower than what some folks are putting out with SC. The only potentially limiting factor I see is the clutch.
 

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From what i see that M policy is that they stick to the same engine till the next new model shows up ,, unlike AMG there is always in update to their engines for example the first sl55 were 476hp one year later they introduced the new 500 hp engine and the new cluster instrument that read 330km/h..

i hope that they are going to change their policy and keep us updated with thier engine preformance figures changes from time to time,, and they dont stick to the same engine the whole model period..

As for the X5 M there will be no X5 m powered as the M boss mentioned in his interview he said that because of the heavy weight of the x5 and that is not m power policy
 

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vndkshn said:
Of course, there is often a difference between what the manufacturer SAYS something can do or withstand and the realities of its abilities. Look at the current trans. It was rated by BMW MUCH lower than what some folks are putting out with SC. The only potentially limiting factor I see is the clutch.
Funny thing about technical specifications and real-world performance. I think I've made only about 2 tire-smoking launches in my E39. Now, I'm no Ayrton Senna with the gearbox, but I've been driving a manual transmission for almost 30 years (Yeah, I'm THAT ancient! :biggrin: ) When I brought my car in for service I remarked about somewhat balky shifting between 2 and 3. Lo and behold, the gearbox is fried, and BMWNA is replacing it with a remanufactured ZF unit under warranty. No clutch issues, however. And I thought this thing was built like a Panzer............ hmmm :7:
 

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I'm not a big fan of aftermarket engine changes (beyond chipping) to increase HP (especially SCs) because of the drivetrain issues and other reliability issues. (e.g., look at the very bad experience many have had with Nowack, Hennessy, etc.). The E39 M5 did not have enough clutch to begin with and would not withstand many aggressive launches.

I wonder if it is even possible to replace the E60 M5 clutch with a stiffer one without also needing to change the SMG programming and maybe even the servo actuators.

Tom
 

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alsahher said:
From what i see that M policy is that they stick to the same engine till the next new model shows up ,, unlike AMG there is always in update to their engines for example the first sl55 were 476hp one year later they introduced the new 500 hp engine and the new cluster instrument that read 330km/h..

i hope that they are going to change their policy and keep us updated with thier engine preformance figures changes from time to time,, and they dont stick to the same engine the whole model period..

As for the X5 M there will be no X5 m powered as the M boss mentioned in his interview he said that because of the heavy weight of the x5 and that is not m power policy
Whether they keep the same engine I think depends on a lot of factors. Looking back at the 8 series which we know was a sales flop, they probably deliberately produced quite a few different engine outputs to try rescue sales, but didn't get anywhere with that attempt.

Heavy weight also means that M7 is no go.
 

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M6 Forever said:
I agree with the first 2 speculations about the M5/M6 and M6 CSL, but you must have very, very good insight to speculate about the supercar, 2010 M5/M6, X5M and even the M7. What motivated you to go that far into the future?
Just think economically only one engine for M5 and M6 would not satisfy the sharholder. M7 and X5M could get a different version with less horsepower and more torque. Both cars wan´t be a M-car, just the engine.

The supercar is a must for BMW. We have heard alot of such rumours.

One engine - a lot of usage - and then there is the formula one also with a 10-cylinder. So all fits in the marketing world.

Greetings
 

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M6 Forever said:
Whether they keep the same engine I think depends on a lot of factors. Looking back at the 8 series which we know was a sales flop, they probably deliberately produced quite a few different engine outputs to try rescue sales, but didn't get anywhere with that attempt.

Heavy weight also means that M7 is no go.
yeah am with u here .. i think ALpina B7 is the replacment for the M7 to have some competetion in the market with other brands sucha S55 and the upcoming Audi S8(if there is on going to be built)...

about the 8 series i think to rescue the sales maybe didnt work with different engine output can be one reason.. maybe there are some other factors that was againt the sales rescue..
 

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mumbasic said:
It doesn´t make sense to introduce in only two years the M5 with 550 hp. BMW would make all M5 buyers with 500 hp very angry. We here in Germany know the way to keep the customers satisifed over a long time.

I would predict the following:

2004 - 2008 507 hp M5 an d M6
2008 - 2010 550 HP M6 CSL
2006 600 PS in a new Super sports car
> 2010 next M5 and M6 would get 550 HP in 6-7 years
2008 2 years after the introduction of the new X5 a X5M with 500 HP
2009 a M7 with 550 HP (the new 7-series model)

Greetings

Adnan
Are you forgetting that the E34 first came with a 3.6 and 311 hp? The last year they produced a 3.8 with 347 hp. Also the first M5 was supposed to be a very limited production. After they saw the strong sales they decided to release many more. That DID piss of some people. So much so in fact they were sued (class action) and lost. They had to pay the first generation buyers a fee. No BMW is not new to pissing peoplr off. What they won't do is make promises or statements like that again.

I have no doubt they will up the HP in later years especially with the M6. With the lack of popularity of the E60 they may have to up the ante to stimulate sales......
 

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rebel1 said:
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I have no doubt they will up the HP in later years especially with the M6. With the lack of popularity of the E60 they may have to up the ante to stimulate sales......
I think the M6 is a more likely candidate to get "up the bhp" - which is probably what the CSL version is there for, coming in later in the M6's production's life cycle. Have a think about the "new" Aston Martin Vanquish version S, it's all sales driven.
 

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I tend to agree with the 507bhp for the M5/M6. M has a track record on being consistent through out the model life and on shared engines (perhaps some minor power variations for intake/exhaust issues).

They also have a track record for manual transmissions and rear wheel drive. So I would be naturally doubtful on a M X5 or M7.

I can just see them doing a late model cycle CSL on the M6 with more power and less weight but not bringing it to the US due to the cost to certify the car and the low volume for such a car.

As to the supercar, BMWs in a weird spot. A supercar sounds like a great idea. But the current regime says every model must stand on its own and make a healthy profit. Supercars tend to be loss leaders. I think it would take regime change in the managerial and styling departments. I believe the latter part has already happened though... I hear there will be no supercar until 2010 at the earliest. I would be glad to be wrong so long as it does not follow the current styling.
 

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Manufacturing tolerances and design safety factors both can influence wether you have a car that is good for tuning and another just like it that breaks half way.
Tuning the car and demanding more from mechanical components puts you closer to the design edge. If you were already on the edge, upsy... :byebye:

I don't really think that a change in engine will be made, unless some new emission regulations come about much before the end of the E60 models. Sure, in america it seems the 3.8 was for the last year. In fact, it was because 92 was the year when new emission regulations started in europe, so they build the new engine from 92 to 95 (also they could up merc's 500E built by porsche and again have the most powerfull and fast 4 door in germany). Allas, the E36 M3 also got a new engine in 96 because the old one didn't pass emissions and so since they needed a new one, they did a better one (this is the good thing about BMW M that i often don't see in other sports divisions and even at BMW AG, sometimes it's just as good as before and they don't take the changes to make something better, but we live in a world of limited resourses mostly, so...). The E39 was designed from the outset to respect all emissions that would exist during it's marketing time so no engine change was made. The same for the E46 and i am guessing the same will be for the E60. It just is that much cheaper NOT changing anything for all the vehicles. Remeber that the bulk investment is in development and tooling. If they don't need to change the tools, the bigger the profit. The 6spd E34 M5 from 1995 i recon was the last car that lost the M division money. For me it's also the true last one, fully hand-built (not just the engine). The E39 i don't really care about (it's too american, V8, lots of torque, front heavy, VERY low bhp/L...), the E60 is a different matter altogether. The magic is lost, but by virtue of techonology and progress it is SO MUCH better that it deserves it's place among the best. :)

PS - this is just my personal opinion:blabla: , i don't mean to anger the (vast majority of) E39 owners on the board :cheers: The fact that I can list some stuff i don't like about and i find little "M like" and that it still was years ahead of it's competitors is a true measure of how great the car is;) My beef with it is that I feel, it could have been better still (yes, i'm nuts)ouich
 

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MEnthusiast said:
As to the supercar, BMWs in a weird spot. A supercar sounds like a great idea. But the current regime says every model must stand on its own and make a healthy profit. Supercars tend to be loss leaders. I think it would take regime change in the managerial and styling departments. I believe the latter part has already happened though... I hear there will be no supercar until 2010 at the earliest. I would be glad to be wrong so long as it does not follow the current styling.
That's what potentially "worrying": the styling on a supercar. Get the styling messy and it will be a super-flop. All/most supercars are already avant-garde in their styling, albeit well balanced, but I dare not imagine what van Hooydonk's team might come up with.
 

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António Duarte said:
Remeber that the bulk investment is in development and tooling.
I would argue that the true highest cost would be recertification, followed by tooling, then development a close third.

I doubt we will see any HP jumps in the M5's V10, and if there are any, it will be mainly computer/exhaust/intake changes. I suspect that any increase in performance for the M6 will come from intake/exhaust differences, but perhaps BMW will choose to turn the computer up a bit. If there is a M6 CSL (which again I state makes zero sense), my bet is it too will have a 5L V10, with any additional power coming from additional intake/exhaust tuning (like the M3 CSL) and perhaps some additional computer work. I seriously doubt they will develop a different engine just for an extremely low volume car (for the same reason Jerry points out.. the demand for profit margins on each car).
 
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