BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My touring is not particulary happy going into second gear at the moment :mad:

Is this a known weak point on the gearboxes? Before I take it to get fixed, what the likely culprits? Syncro for 2nd? Other gearbox bearings/bits? As you can perhaps tell I'm not pretending to know much about the g/box.. so it will be going to a specilaist to get fixed.

Some ideas on what it may be and a range of costs would be useful.

Cheers

Rich

Edit: I should say it is only an issue getting into second when dropping down from 3rd gear with plenty revs. Normal pottering around isn't a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,063 Posts
Sounds like a sync to me. BMW usually charges around 75 quid for a sync.

Mine is coming out in a few weeks and the renovation will cost around 1000 euros.

Lantz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,415 Posts
You're describing the classic "worn syncho in second" that is a common wear point on nearly all manual gearboxes, regardless of make or model.

If the crunch is only happening at *high* rev downshifts to second, it sounds like the synchro has started to wear but is a long way from broken.

Over time, it will gradually become worse, with the noise sounding on progressively lower-rev changes. (Celica v2 we just got does it at anything over 15mph!)




The first question is, how many miles have you done on that gearbox?

The second question is to whether the underside of the gearbox and seals are dry, or do they weep transmission fluid?




As the gearbox is still only doing at high revs, you may find that draining the gearbox oil and then refilling to the correct level with a quality brand will alleviate the problem for the time being. Many a car is run on this principle.

As more time passes, the problem will resurface. The Getrag box is not renowned for its simplicity and ease to work on. If BMW are charging £75 for a sync as posted above, I'll take back everything I ever said about Main Dealers if that's fitted!

If the cost fitted is prohibitive (I await a confirmed answer with interest) then look into sourcing a second hand gearbox, which for a 5 speed will be £200-£800 mileage dependant.





I have not used the technique myself, but I understand that learning to double-declutch will be of benefit in the meantime as this is what was used before syncho gears became common on passenger cars.

Clutch down, come out of third in to neutral, clutch up in neutral, blip throttle to approximately the correct revs for where second will be, clutch in, select second, clutch up. If done correctly the crunch will not be there. The tradeoff is a slight increase in clutch wear rate over extended time.

This may be an option for you if the problem gets worse, you still need to use the car and a donor gearbox proves hard to find.

(P.S. A skilled driver with a ear for the engine note can actually change gears up and down the box without the clutch at all if they match the revs right. Why not borrow someone else's car and try?)


All the best.

Ivan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
My car has the same problem and when I checked the synchro prices a few years ago I'm sure they were over £200 each (I need 2nd & 3rd). But I may be wrong or they might have been reduced (yeah, right!).

I have put my car on ebay as is, but despite now being a car dealer and selling special cars every month, I am still seriously thinking about keeping it.

I saw the car being broken in Cornwall but a 100k gearbox maybe a false economy if I can have my 70k box rebuilt for a few hundred more. Hmm decisions decisions!

But if anyone does have info on the synchro prices and price of a 'box rebuild, I would be interested to know.

Cheers,
Bryn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ivan

Thanks for the useful tips. It's a weird symptom really, as it doesn't crunch going into second from high revs, it simply will not go through the gate to engage second at all not untill the revs have dropped way down. Its simply met with great resistance, so perhaps it isn't the syncro, something else - a linkage problem?

You're right to check the levels, though I'm hopeful they are all okay as it recently had a propshaft seal replaced at each end (diff and gearbox), levels were topped up then, or so I was told... I'll check.

Cheers

Rich

PS. It looks like I very well may not be taking the Touring to the ring now, I guess I'll just have to take the Grale ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
I had the same on my Touring, a few years back; I decided
to try Red Line oil first.
Good call as now it is just slightly notchy when cold
and nothing else.

JAime
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
92 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Hi Jaime,

That's interesting, a cheaper fix like that sounds good to me! I'm beginning to wonder if it's just the clutch slave on its way out as I know it was weaping a touch, though I guess that would likely make all gear changes difficult, perhaps just accentuating the notchyness of 2nd gear that is already there? Anyway, off to the garage tomorrow morning. I'll see what the verdict is.

Rich
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
832 Posts
ivandias said:

(P.S. A skilled driver with a ear for the engine note can actually change gears up and down the box without the clutch at all if they match the revs right. Why not borrow someone else's car and try?)

I had to do this once with my E30 325i !

I drove over 400km's without a clutch.......' I was out of town...... on a deserted road using this technique.

Worst part was when I got into traffic near Lagos.....you should have seen sweat on my face and hands :hihi:.
 

·
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
·
4,273 Posts
You can change up & down most any box by double declutching.
I drove an Audi Avant for 300kms with a failed clutch & slave cylinder,
Just heel & toe blipping the throttle to engage gears...

(Btw, that does not make me a skilled driverhmmm)

The Getrag 280 & D type can be used as above.

Does sound sychroniser gear.
Trouble is, when you open on of these "Trannies" to inspect, its all the other
worn bits that you see, that also need addressing.
10 years ago when the 280 Getrag was still a production trans to O/E,
a rebuild was £1000 plus vat.
All the parts were available.

With each year passing, the potential full service these seems to become
more difficult.

Farrell
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top