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The new Z28 is a great car. I almost ordered one because it has the same great motor as my C6 Z06, but I happened to have just ordered a 2016 C7 Z06 convertible instead ;-D

So sad to see the M4 be beat by an E63 AMG...lol
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
"The new Z28 is a great car. I almost ordered one because it has the same great motor as my C6 Z06, but I happened to have just ordered a 2016 C7 Z06 convertible instead ;-D"

Kerbeck Corvette | Corvettes for Sale | 2015 Corvettes Coming soon!

kerbecks has a couple of 2014 Z51 convertibles on the lot discounted $ 5,000 to tie you over till you get 2016 Z06 vert.

I like the vision out of the vert much better than the coupe, besides one should be able to design a fully welded roll cage that can easily bolted in and out for track events.



"So sad to see the M4 be beat by an E63 AMG...lol"

It is a trading places story; the BMW's are getting to be better Cadillacs/Mercs, while Cadillac and AMG are fulfilling the M promise better
 

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Surprised that the Z/28 beat the Stingray by 3 seconds. I know it had a lot of weight reduction from the SS and ZL1 models, but it's gotta still be heavier, and have a worse hp/weight ratio than the Stingray, right?
 

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I was watching a YouTube video on a head-to-head new GTR vs. new Z/28. The GTR won of course but one thing that caught my attention was they said the Z/28 was a tuned track car. Maybe that's why it does so well on the track?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Attached is the technology that went into the Z-28


With the F-1 technology and F-1 vendors that BMW has at it's disposal it could easily eclipse the Z-28 effort.

But even the E60 should have a chance if appropriately modified.

The M5 makes more RWHP than the Z28, removing rear seats and heavy, heavy (but comfy) front seats and replace with carbon fiber buckets would bring the M5 below the weight of the Z-28, even better for the M6.

The rest is lowering, stiffer bushings, more camber, coil over's tunable for rebound and compression dampening, wider front wheels and stickier tires.
 

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My LS7 put down 468rwhp and 437rwtq stock. I suspect the units in the Z28 are putting down at least that.

Aside from getting into the motor, there is no change a stock S85 will make that grunt. Hp yes, but not the torque. The LS7 is a torque monster.


I suspect even if BMW made an E63 M6 CSL, it would struggle to match the lap time of the Z28 ~ which was made strictly as a track tool for the street. If the new M4 is significantly slower than the Z28 on a track, then any S85 powered car would be even far behind as the M4 is BMW's best track tool to date.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
My LS7 put down 468rwhp and 437rwtq stock. I suspect the units in the Z28 are putting down at least that.

Aside from getting into the motor, there is no change a stock S85 will make that grunt. Hp yes, but not the torque. The LS7 is a torque monster.


I suspect even if BMW made an E63 M6 CSL, it would struggle to match the lap time of the Z28 ~ which was made strictly as a track tool for the street. If the new M4 is significantly slower than the Z28 on a track, then any S85 powered car would be even far behind as the M4 is BMW's best track tool to date.

Troy, couldn't you wait a couple of days before dashing my hopes and dreams? LOL

My experience is unbridled optimism brings doing the impossible closer to reality, I have never failed at anything I applied my mind and passion to.

But based on your assessment; it appears rather than have dual a purpose street track car (if you do not want the Z-28) is to go with an M5 ( a better street car) and the buy a dedicated track car (no license and registration required no KY yearly property taxes, Yay)

BTW torque is good if you are a slow in fast out kind of guy (longer life span).
But me being a fast in, hold on for dear life, do not do anything that upsets corning balance (like applying throttle with a torque monster on exit) torque is less of an advantage.
 
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It all depends on what you are looking for in a car. I personally could daily drive my z06 and could be happy. My wife hates riding in it because the ride is extremely terrible, car is so loud that you can't hear the music, and the new pilot sport cups throw rocks nonstop at the bottom of the car. Me, I personally love that. A few of my M6 are dialed in very aggressively and that works too but most people are conservative and are looking for a nice smooth ride and want to relax while driving.

I personally hit redline at least once every time I get in a car, so the smooth driving is not for me. We have seen about 150 M5/M6 in the past 18-months and 95% of them are conservative setup cars while a few are dialed in to carve up the road.

The LS7 and S85 I feel are the last of the great naturally aspirated motors of all time so I feel strongly about both of them. I will be owning an LT4 (supercharged) next year this time, but I am afraid I have no intentions of buying another modern BMW again because the engines are terrible in all of them.
 

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Surprised that the Z/28 beat the Stingray by 3 seconds. I know it had a lot of weight reduction from the SS and ZL1 models, but it's gotta still be heavier, and have a worse hp/weight ratio than the Stingray, right?
Keep in mind that the Z/28 is running track tires and the Corvette is running street tires. The tires alone are worth 4+ seconds a lap on a 4+ mile lap.

Later, Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Keep in mind that the Z/28 is running track tires and the Corvette is running street tires. The tires alone are worth 4+ seconds a lap on a 4+ mile lap.

Later, Steve

That is why I like the Z-28, all the suspension pick up points (control arms, ball joints, hub, bearings and knuckle, sway bar mounting, tie rods, sub-frame bushings, all other bushings, etc.) have been engineered for the high loads associated with race tires.

The vette is engineered more for comfort by using all available techniques that reduce the impact harshness associated with run-flat tires.

Car & Driver used to do a segment every 2-years testing the current crop of HP tires, the one year a vette was used as the common test vehicle, C&D also put on Hoosier slicks as a bench mark.

The strange result was that the vette was slower on track and skid pad with the Hoosier's due to massive vibration causing loss of contact patch.

This was traced to the pretty forged aluminum control arms winding up (like a clock spring) and releasing making the tire jump at regular intervals creating the vibration noted.

Chevy never gave C&D another vette since for the purpose of tire testing.
The current vettes with the Z51, and Z06 package have upgraded suspension, if it goes beyond the capabilities of the OEM tires, I do not know.

I do know that the ZR1 came with bespoke hubs and bearings to handle the higher loads of the DOT track oriented tires they came with, the Z28 uses the same bearings (from a $ 130k car) apparently the best available in the GM parts bin

Thus one cannot be certain the vette will pick up 4-sec with track tires till someone tries it.
 

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For the money, I would rather have the Vette with some sticky tires.

You can make a heavy car go fast around a track, but it costs a lot of money. Basically they consume wear parts like brake pads, brake rotors, tires and gas at an excessive rate.

And of course all the parts are larger and more expensive.

For me, a $75,000 Camaro, built for the track, weighing close to 2 tons, makes no sense.

Later, Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #13
For the money, I would rather have the Vette with some sticky tires.

You can make a heavy car go fast around a track, but it costs a lot of money. Basically they consume wear parts like brake pads, brake rotors, tires and gas at an excessive rate.

And of course all the parts are larger and more expensive.

For me, a $75,000 Camaro, built for the track, weighing close to 2 tons, makes no sense.

Later, Steve


I have no argument with you and the 99% of enthusiasts out there that would agree a 100% with the above generalization.

I have some biases regarding Corvettes, some may no longer apply, hard to tell since no one will let me test a c7 on track, magazine writers I have found not to be reliable (they omit reporting some obvious flaws at times, and do not push cars to the limit)

Even back in 2006 Z06's had terrible toe change steering under race loading's of rear suspension, I do not mind dealing with sidewall deflection and tire break away but back wheels pointing in different directions (IRS= Independent Rear Steering) while braking, acceleration, or mid corner bumps is not my cup of tea.

No Corvette has ever been crash tested, while the Camaro has the highest attainable.

Z-28 parts prices are a bargain, I checked, Corvette parts are at least 30% higher OEM or after-market.

Z-28 steel chassis is easily repairable (I have no fun on the track unless I can push the envelope)

Other than tires, consumable prices are reasonable, clutch changes are cheaper on Z-28, shocks last longer and are more effective and cheaper to replace than FE4's

Engine changes (out of warranty) are cheaper and easier do to since no AC on the z-28

I weigh to much, thus less effect on car balance in a 3850-lb car than a 3350-lb car LOL

(That is why I was toying with the idea of making an M5/M6 track ready).

Rationalization at it prime, but my rare breed individual opinion just the same.

The kicker: new Z-28 prices are down $ 8,000 while c7 prices optioned for the track are up $7,000
 
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