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Discussion Starter #142
I wrote this up last night and apparently forget to click the 'Post reply' button. So here goes.

I checked for voltage and confirmed:
1- PLCD connector X6574 pin 3 (5V power), from ECU pin 34. Ground will be pin 1, from ECU pin 4.
2- Gear position sensor connector X016 pin 1, 3 , 4 , and 9 (5V power), from ECU.
But my close up eye sight is not that great anymore. I turned 52 today. I picked up some reading glasses on the way home so I can see what I am doing when testing for voltage an/or continuity going forward in this project.

Just to confirm the gear position sensor is the one that sits atop the transmission. Is that correct?

I have some concerns about the wires at the gear position sensor connector into the transmission wire harness. It looks the guy I bought the car from put some orange shrink wrap on there, presumably to conceal the wires. It also looks like the copper wire is exposed. I have concerns the wires could be touching each other causing false signals/voltage faults.

See the attached picture.IMG_1525 is the same connector on my 2006 transmission showing what the wires and connectors should look like. They have wire coating and do not look stretched out. Pictures IMG_1526, IMG_1527 and IMG_1529 show the same connector on the 2010 transmission installed in my car. Wire coating is missing. It looks like the wires have been stretched out. It also looks like the exposed wires are very close to each other and could be shorting causing a fault.

I wish I would have noticed this sooner. I would have installed the 2006 transmission back in the car even though is has 80K more miles.

Do you know of any means to test if the wires as they are are causing a fault? These wires and connector coming out of the transmission look so bad to me that I cannot imagine how they can be functioning correctly. But the car does show which gear it in correctly on the dash. I have yet to take note whether the shift lever is displaying correctly. I wonder if I can remove the wires and connector from the 2006 transmission and install them on the 2010 transmission in the car?

Henry
 

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That’s is the gear position sensor and that wire insulation self destructs. It happens to all of us and is very likely causing your issues. I think it also has caused these cars to plummet in value since the sensor is not sold separately, but only with the complete hydraulic system, which is 8k from BMW.

I’m thinking it’s causing my issues despite me repairing it by resoldering the wires, and if you look at the other post that Platti originated and I just responded to, it may be his issues to. The gear display on the dash is apparently NOT an output value from this sensor, rather what the SMG ECU is requesting. I think Platti’s video proved that as it shows his car is in a gear but the trans is not hooked up.
 

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Note: I have edited my earlier posts just to confirm that I got the correct feed back.

That is a really bad wiring repair, they should encapsulate each wire individually by removing each pin from the connector and reach up as far as they could , the best method is slide a heat shrink.
Now you still can test if the wiring is indeed touching each other inside the bundle, by continuity test between them, it is time consuming but at least it will give you an idea if they are the cause of this malfunction, if they are shorting to each other then expect they are shorting the PLCD 2 as they both share power and ground, and that explain why they have something in common.
As per the expert GURU here, you can not remove the position sensor and install it on other actuator block, it may work and it may not, and may work but cause intermittent malfunctions down the road. You need at least to swap the whole block with its married sensor or simply re do it.
 

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Gmtegear, no my sensor wiring is fine, my problem is mechanical, either turning the piston will fix it or changing the gearbox if the shafts or synchro is damaged. I will know when I put the block back with the piston in the correct position.
 

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Discussion Starter #146
I see.

So when I change the gear through software (INPA or ISTA) commands are sent through the SMG ECU to the transmission. Those commands are shared with the dash either directly or through the engine ECU.

So i guess the gear position sensor is for the purpose of illuminating the shifter. Is that correct?

fault code 5104 and 5105 are for the power supply of system sensor A and system sensor B. System Sensor A, B are not very descriptive. Are these the clutch and gear position sensors?

Henry
 

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Jim Colley was/is the guru on these boxes but he’s kinda MIA unfortunately. I won’t go into that, since that was beat to death in other threads but hope he’s doing ok. He’s the one that helped establish the fact that you can’t just swap sensors, but I don’t know that we have much knowledge here on the boards of what the resulting failure modes are when you simply swap or have a bad repair, It’s very plausible the complete trans teach-in fails. It could also cause the rattling issue I documented since the bleeding of the actuator block engages the gears to do the bleed. I’m going to do a bleed with the block unmated to the trans because that’s apparently how BMW hydro units come, pre-bled.
 

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Discussion Starter #148
Platti,

when you say 'or simply re do it.', what do you mean?

System Sensor A, B are not very descriptive. Are these the clutch and gear position sensors?
 

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So i guess the gear position sensor is for the purpose of illuminating the shifter. Is that correct?
No it’s the sensor array that tells the computer that the gearbox is in the gear it commanded. It was a logical assumption that the displayed gear is actually what the sensor said it was, but based on the video from Platti, that can’t be since it wasn’t hooked up. Therefore it’s the requested gear, although there’s probably logic that says at some point if the commanded gear and sensed gear don’t match then throw a code and flash the gear display value. I don’t think BMW will tell is the control logic, but we can deduce that from these observations.

Re the fault codes on the 5v power supply. I think solenoids operate off of 5v, so maybe you have an issue with that circuitry. I’ve not looked in to that. Since it’s a power supply if it’s not available the system wouldn’t be able to turn on the solenoids.
But that circuit could also be what powers the sensor strip too. You have to trace the schematic. Again I’ve Not looked at that, I have my own issues I’m looking at.
 

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So when I change the gear through software (INPA or ISTA) commands are sent through the SMG ECU to the transmission. Those commands are shared with the dash either directly or through the engine ECU.
Yes it goes to the transmission through the SMG ECU to execute the command not through the engine ECU, at the same time the a signal will go to the display in normal operation mode, In ISTA/INPA manual selection mode the position is sent to the display by the software.
So i guess the gear position sensor is for the purpose of illuminating the shifter. Is that correct?
No, the gear position sensor signal go only to the SMG ECU for gear position recognition.
fault code 5104 and 5105 are for the power supply of system sensor A and system sensor B. System Sensor A, B are not very descriptive. Are these the clutch and gear position sensors?
Correct and they are not very descriptive, but they are the sensor 5V power. They are the source of power to the gear position and clutch sensors.
when you say 'or simply re do it.', what do you mean?
Re-repair the gear position wiring harness especially if it is shorted, because it has 5V and ground in those 9 wires, this may be your problem. Test for 5V and ground at the corresponded pins on the other side of this connector that comes from the ECU, if you have 5V power and ground, then the gear position harness is shorted and you need to repair it before going forward and solve your malfunction so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #151
I went to my garage to check for continuity between any of the pins on the gear position sensor connector coming from the SMG. That is the one that was badly repaired with the orange shrink wrap. I had the battery disconnected while checking. There are two pairs of adjacent pins in the connector with continuity.

I do not know the pin outs well enough to know if the is what is supposed to happen. I believe that to be the X016 connector to the gear position sensor atop the SMG transmission. I check newtis:
www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e60-m5-lim/components-connectors/plug-in-comb-type-solder-connectors/connectors-from-x0/x016-no-adapter/
but I could only find wiring diagrams (which I cannot understand) but no pinout diagram.

Henry
 

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Discussion Starter #152
CORECTION: There three pairs of pins with connectivity. I looked at the connector on the 2006 SMG (not installed in car) through my reading glasses. The connected pin pairs are 3 and 4, 4 and 5, and 7 and 8. And I can wiggle the connector around to make the connectivity intermittent. So should there be any connectivity between these pin pairs or is this a definite problem?

I know Platti said pin 3 and 4 get 5V power from SMG ECU pin 34. But the connector off the SMG I am testing is not even plugged in. So I have to think this a problem.

You know when I was looking at the same connector on the 2006 SMG sitting in my garage for comparison. I could see some of the wire coating is cracked. I imagine a lot of this to do with the extreme heat next to the SMG and the exhaust.

Henry
 

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If you can't read the diagram, the pin numbers for each wire is engraved on the plugs, you need a magnifying glass or use your mobile video camera and zoom in to see them.
I know Platti said pin 3 and 4 get 5V power from SMG ECU pin 34
pin 3 get 5V power from SMG ECU pin 34.
pin 4 get 5V power from SMG ECU pin 2.
CORECTION: There three pairs of pins with connectivity. I looked at the connector on the 2006 SMG (not installed in car) through my reading glasses. The connected pin pairs are 3 and 4, 4 and 5, and 7 and 8. And I can wiggle the connector around to make the connectivity intermittent. So should there be any connectivity between these pin pairs or is this a definite problem?
Pin 3 and Pin 4 use different 5V channels, they shouldn't touch each other.
Pin 4 5V power and Pin 5 signal ground for shift rod R/1st (redundant) , they shouldn't touch each other. (SHORT).
Pin 7 signal ground for shift rod 2/4 and Pin 8 ground, they shouldn't touch each other.
 

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CORECTION: There three pairs of pins with connectivity. I looked at the connector on the 2006 SMG (not installed in car) through my reading glasses. The connected pin pairs are 3 and 4, 4 and 5, and 7 and 8. And I can wiggle the connector around to make the connectivity intermittent. So should there be any connectivity between these pin pairs or is this a definite problem?
You have a problem for sure in the wiring. In fact you should not have any continuity between the pins of the Gear position sensor (sensor side plug) in the total 9 wires, the fact is that pin 4 connect with pin 1 and and 9 internally as per the diagram (there is no wire for them in the plug X016). I physically confirmed on both gear position blocks I have.
 

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If you have any continuity in the installed transmission, then drop it and isolate the wires, (you have a short big time).
To confirm that connect the plug for the gear sensor and probe the voltage after identifying the pin location and test for the 5V and ground while it is connected, if there is a short, disconnect the plug and test the corresponding pin in the plug ECU side for 5V and ground at the specified pins, if you do have 5V and ground then drop the transmission and isolate the wiring.
It is easier also to test the last step from the ECU in the engine bay, but I prefer from under the car to confirm you don't have broken wires from the ECU up to the plug.
 

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Discussion Starter #156
Ok, I plugged in the battery and tested the connectors on the transmission wire harness:

A) PLCD connector X6574:
1) I have 5V on pins 1, 4, 7. I have 0V on all others.
2) I have connectivity between the ground wire on the front right engine mount and pins 2, 3, 6.
3) There is no pin or wire in connector position 10, 11, 12.
4) Weird thing is that I could have sworn I had 5V on pin 3 too for a while but no longer. I am not sure if that makes sense since I have connectivity to ground on that pin. I was probably touching another oin with the probe.

B) Gear position sensor connector X016:
1) I have 5V on pins 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10. I have 0V on all others.
2) I have connectivity between the ground wire on the front right engine mount and pins 8, 12.
3) There is no pin or wire in connector position 1, 9, 11.

Is next step to repair the X016 connector coming from the transmission?

Henry
 

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Discussion Starter #157
I tested the two plugs in the 2006 transmission sitting in my garage. There are no two adjacent pins in either connector coming from the transmission that have connectivity.

The short is the exposed wires touching each other right at the connector coming of the transmission. I want to try to repair the Gear position sensor connector X016 off of the transmission without dropping the transmission. There is very little room to work between the transmission and the side wall of the body of the car. But it has to be better than wrestling the transmission out of the car with limited tools in my garage.
 

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Earlier in this thread I posted what to fix on the smg while it's out. Yes, wiring is one of those. You must fix that as it's clearly not right.

I checked the wiring diagrams the other day and the plcd and pressure sensor share the same 5v output. Since pressure seems to read fine there's no point in checking that 5v output. As for the gear position sensor (GPS?) supply it is shown using a different ecu pin but that doesn't mean they could be tied internally.

The dash shows the requested gear. Blinks if shift is in process/delayed. Surprised gm didn't realize that since dash changes instantly with paddles/shifter. Or even worse you hit paddles then look down and dash hasn't changed yet so you hit it again and now you're not going to the gear you wanted...
 

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The dash shows the requested gear. Blinks if shift is in process/delayed. Surprised gm didn't realize that since dash changes instantly with paddles/shifter. Or even worse you hit paddles then look down and dash hasn't changed yet so you hit it again and now you're not going to the gear you wanted...
Interesting thoughts.

I only was looking at the computer screen since when I’m running the tests, I’m outside the car. Platii was the one who did the video of the dash and INPA. But also we’re talking about a diagnostic mode where the SMG ECU is not the master, rather it is the diagnostic software which is calling out the commands via the correct ECU. However I’m more interested in what the software displays as the system state (what gear does it the car say the trans is in). If it’s open loop then it’s pointless because open loop means no feedback.

Information displayed on the dash is usually a state value, not a commanded value. (ISWERT vs. SOLLWERT). We do know that BMW by default underreports the speed, but that’s still a state value not commanded value. False values cause airplanes to crash, it’s happened several times actually, which is why there are so many redundant air speed sensors.

I don’t think the displayed gear is as simple as showing requested. It’s nowhere as simple as you stated, but i’lll bite. Everything on the KOMBI is displayed as a result of CAN messages. The SMG ECU is the master of trans related messages. What happens when you are driving at 70 mph in 3rd gear. You’d be very high up in the RPM range, let’s say the RPM is 7000. You then single tap the down shift lever or button. The computer should deny your request, because it knows that 2nd gear would well exceed the max RPMS. But based on what you stated, it should show 2 because that’s what the driver commanded. What happens when you double tap down? Does it show 1? Same thing the other way, 1st gear at 5 mph and you’re at 800 RPM. Tap up 6 times to go command 7th. I don’t think the computer will let you because it knows it will stall. I also don’t believe the dash would show 7 either. Good software design prevents the client from doing bad things.

Also the SMG is capable of very fast shifts, I don’t know the exact value claimed but let’s say 500ms (0.5s). 500ms is not along delay for the driver to see the gear change state. I already stated there has to be some logic on how to represent errors.

There already has to be a delay measured in X or XX ms since the closing of the switch at the wheel has to be recognized by the SMG ECU and processed and then a message broadcasted on the network. CAN is not speed of light fast with this generation. In early 2000s there were major advances in clock speeds of processors, memory, and cost. That stuff by itself allow for performance improvements that weren’t cost feasible in cars 3-5 years earlier.
 

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A) PLCD, Hydraulic Pressure and Temperature connector X6574:
1) I have 5V on pins 1, 4, 7. I have 0V on all others.
Pin 1 (press sensor power signal) and 7 (PLCD power signal) all ok. pin 4 for (temperature sensor) will have variation from 0V-5V in ambient temperature around 2.0V-3.5V.
2) I have connectivity between the ground wire on the front right engine mount and pins 2, 3, 6.
ok
3) There is no pin or wire in connector position 10, 11, 12.
ok
4) Weird thing is that I could have sworn I had 5V on pin 3 too for a while but no longer. I am not sure if that makes sense since I have connectivity to ground on that pin. I was probably touching another oin with the probe.
I believe you, it does make sense. It is better not giving 5V. That's the ground wire for (pressure sensor). Explaination: This happening because there is intermittent short at Gear position sensor connector X016 pin 3 (5V) with various signal ground from main ground wires at pin 8 at gear position sensor and pin 8 is shared with pressure sensor pin 3 ground.

B) Gear position sensor connector X016:
1) I have 5V on pins 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10. I have 0V on all others.
Total "spaghetti" First you should have all 9 wires individually isolated (The main cause).
Pin 3 and pin 4 5V sensor power (2 channels). Pin 2, 5, 6, 7, and 10 (signal ground) mixing all together is shorting the ECU internal circuit.
2) I have connectivity between the ground wire on the front right engine mount and pins 8, 12.
ok (2 ground channels).
3) There is no pin or wire in connector position 1, 9, 11.
Normal.
Is next step to repair the X016 connector coming from the transmission?
Yes, Isolate all 9 wires individually. Hope this will fix your issue in this area and then you will be able to start the engine and unlock the shifter. After the wiring repair we may need to do adaptations or more testing based on the outcomes when the system runs.
It is
your call if you can repair it while the transmission is installed.
 
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