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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
grrrrrrrOn top of my tailgate wiring issue, which will be resolved by the stealer on the 4th Jan (glass opening switch now doesnt work at all) ive had the 'Red Cog of *****' come up on the dash today. The strange thing is that there were no symptoms or reductions in performance that i could see / feel.

It was a cold night last night and as has occured after previous cold nights or heavy frosts the gear changes have been a little slow for the first half a mile or so. According to other owners the sluggish changes when cold are fairly common so long as they dont feel abrupt. My 'Red Cog' appeared as i changed from 1st to 2nd coming out of my street. I'd already gone from Reverse to 1st so it wasnt the first change of the journey.

The warning stayed on the dash for 15 seconds or so then disappeared. I checked the control messages afew minutes later and there was a nice, green OK - No Faults indicator there. As i said, there was no loss of performance, the gear changes were smooth in all settings and M mode was as brutal as always.

I thought the E61 and all 65 plate onward E60's were more resilient. Ive had no 'Orange Cog' either which surely would be the usual progression. Any chance this could be related to my wiring issue?

Eddie
 

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You are really welcomed to the M5 world when you get a red cog - its like losing your cherry...you never forget your first time, you are highly stressed and it can be painful :haha:

Probably nothing Eddie but get the dealer to check the message log, for me the red cog was followed by limp mode and a smoked clutch so see if you feel the drive and pull is any different :dunno:
 

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Similar failure for me a couple weeks ago. Seemed to clear itself. I thought. Next drive resulted in a second occurrence which had an additional symptom of the engine stalling at a stop sign and difficulty restarting as it would not go into neutral for a few minutes. Drove it the two blocks back home. Next start was two days later to take it to the shop. Now it wouldn't engage any gear until 2500-3000rpm. You can imagine what that feels like. Rough. All gear changes were VERY slow and rough. Independent BMW service place, Bavarian Workshop for you SoCal folks, did the repair work which included removing the transmission and replacing several pieces around the clutch but not the clutch. My failure happened at 51000 miles. I highly recommend Bavarian Workshop.... Very professional.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Im just pleased ive got the car warrantied. When driving the car again this afternoon there were no 'Cogs' and everything seemed to work as per normal. I'll give the car a good run out tomorrow and test all the settings, that should at least give the car an opportunity to fail if it really is faulty. If it doesnt then i'll just mention it to the dealer when it goes in on the 4th Jan. I am wondering if the dealer updated the software on thursday when i took it in for the tailgate wiring issue and this has upset the SMG software. Might try an SMG reset aswell if thats the case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Just read this comment from Stormster on this issue: 'Mine has been in the sealers for a while with red cog and other faults. They have said it was all down to a low battery charge and excessive battery charge drain....<!-- google_ad_section_end --> '.

Mine has been bringing up the Battery Drain fault due to the tailgate wiring issue so here's hoping the battery drain is causing the spurious Red Cog. Will i sleep tonight?????
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No Red Cog today. The tailgate glass switch is completely inoperable however, but it did open itself a couple of times in the supermarket car park today. Im thinking this is the root of my problems.
 

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Just read this comment from Stormster on this issue: 'Mine has been in the sealers for a while with red cog and other faults. They have said it was all down to a low battery charge and excessive battery charge drain....<!-- google_ad_section_end --> '.

Mine has been bringing up the Battery Drain fault due to the tailgate wiring issue so here's hoping the battery drain is causing the spurious Red Cog. Will i sleep tonight?????
weak battery will cause red cogs.
 

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I'va had the same occassional red cog without symptoms too - until my clutch disc was totally worn off, that's when the red cog stayed on.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'va had the same occassional red cog without symptoms too - until my clutch disc was totally worn off, that's when the red cog stayed on.
I will get BMW to check the state of the clutch when it goes in next week but im convinced the wiring issue coupled with the battery warnings is the source of the Red Cog. I'll update when BMW get on the job.
 

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At least you can rest relatively easy knowing that you are well covered by warranty!

I know from working on my E61 that fault finding the split tailgate wiring is quite a fiddly job and certainly one for the dealer. I spent the best part of a whole day correcting a number plate light malfunction. In the end I had to remove all rear trim and the headlining to get full access. Access is limited and contrary to what the Bentley manual says - there were no plugs to disconnect the wiring loom and remove the tailgate complete. A single broken wire explained the number plate light but most of the bundle on one side looked poorly so i replaced about 30cm of the whole loom that flexes with every opening of the boot - quite a challenge given the way it passes through a double skinned roof panel.

One step at a time though, get your loom and possibly discharge issue resolved, reset and hope your problems disappear!

Good Luck

Euan
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
At least you can rest relatively easy knowing that you are well covered by warranty!

I know from working on my E61 that fault finding the split tailgate wiring is quite a fiddly job and certainly one for the dealer. I spent the best part of a whole day correcting a number plate light malfunction. In the end I had to remove all rear trim and the headlining to get full access. Access is limited and contrary to what the Bentley manual says - there were no plugs to disconnect the wiring loom and remove the tailgate complete. A single broken wire explained the number plate light but most of the bundle on one side looked poorly so i replaced about 30cm of the whole loom that flexes with every opening of the boot - quite a challenge given the way it passes through a double skinned roof panel.

One step at a time though, get your loom and possibly discharge issue resolved, reset and hope your problems disappear!

Good Luck

Euan
I'll let you know how BMW get on next week.
 

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Just a hint - in order to check the clutch disc the exhaust system and the gearbox needs to be dismantled... these hours will not be covered by the dealership unless of course there is a warranty issue of some sort involved. Now that I've got a new clutch I can definitely tell that the old clutch was slipping - especially at low rpm's. 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd. I just did not believe myself :) Best of luck and happy new year 2 u!
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Just a hint - in order to check the clutch disc the exhaust system and the gearbox needs to be dismantled... these hours will not be covered by the dealership unless of course there is a warranty issue of some sort involved. Now that I've got a new clutch I can definitely tell that the old clutch was slipping - especially at low rpm's. 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd. I just did not believe myself :) Best of luck and happy new year 2 u!

Yeah, i'll bear that in mind. Although i have tried to induce slip by various methods, the result is that the clutch feels very healty. This car has done mostly motorway miles so Im expecting that the clutch will last longer than the average 'town car' due to the lower number of gear changes in its life. Not long now til BMW get the car in so we'll see what crops up. I think that curing the wiring issue will solve the rest of my woes. Ive not had any transmission warnings since, only the annoying battery discharge warning due to the tailgate wiring shorting out........ oh and the (very) regular 'fuel reserve' notification that we all hate. lol
 

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At least you can rest relatively easy knowing that you are well covered by warranty!

I know from working on my E61 that fault finding the split tailgate wiring is quite a fiddly job and certainly one for the dealer. I spent the best part of a whole day correcting a number plate light malfunction. In the end I had to remove all rear trim and the headlining to get full access. Access is limited and contrary to what the Bentley manual says - there were no plugs to disconnect the wiring loom and remove the tailgate complete. A single broken wire explained the number plate light but most of the bundle on one side looked poorly so i replaced about 30cm of the whole loom that flexes with every opening of the boot - quite a challenge given the way it passes through a double skinned roof panel.

One step at a time though, get your loom and possibly discharge issue resolved, reset and hope your problems disappear!

Good Luck

Euan
Is there a bentley manual for the E60 M5 available.
 

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Yes and no... Manual for the E60 and E61 yes, specific to the M5 no.

I got it from Amazon.com in the US. It does not cover the V10 engine but it covers pretty much everything else. So much is common to the E60/E61 platform that it really helps with adjustments, wiring, suspension and diagnostics etc. It is pretty large and heavy at about 3 inches thick, but has lots of good photos and procedures as in previous Bentley manuals.

It is ISBN 978-0-8376-1621-6 and costs around $140 US see below:

BMW 5 Series (E60, E61) Repair Information

The BMW 5 Series (E60, E61) Service Manual: 2004-2010 contains in-depth maintenance, service and repair information for the BMW 5 Series from 2004 to 2010. The aim throughout has been simplicity and clarity, with practical explanations, step-by-step procedures and accurate specifications. Whether you're a professional or a do-it-yourself BMW owner, this manual helps you understand, care for and repair your BMW.
Click here to view an excerpt procedure from this BMW manual:
Door Windows 512-7: Front door window, removing and installing.

The do-it-yourself BMW owner will find this manual indispensable as a source of detailed maintenance and repair information. Even if you have no intention of working on your vehicle, you will find that reading and owning this manual makes it possible to discuss repairs more intelligently with a professional technician.
Models covered

525i and 530i
  • M54 engine (2004-2005)
  • N52 engine (2006-2007)
528i
  • N52K engine (2008-2010)
535i
  • N54 twin turbo engine (2008-2010)
545i
  • N62 V8 engine (2004-2005)
550i
  • N62 TU V8 engine (2006-2010)
Manual transmissions
(remove, install, external service)



  • Getrag GS6-17BG
  • ZF GS6-37BZ , ZF GS6-53DZ
Sequential Manual Gearbox (SMG)
(remove, install)



  • ZF GS6S37BZ, ZF GS6S53BZ
Automatic transmissions
(remove, install, external service)



  • ZF GA6HP19Z, GA6HP19Z TU
  • ZF GA6HP26Z, GA6HP26Z TU
Technical features:


  • Condition based service (CBS) maintenance procedures from replacing the cabin microfilter to checking and resetting service intervals. This manual tells you what to do and how and when to do it.
  • Cylinder head cover gasket and crankshaft seal service (includes removal and installation of Valvetronic motor).
  • Cooling system and radiator service.
  • Fuel injection and ignition system diagrams and explanations.
  • Information about advanced technical features such as Valvetronic, VANOS, twin turbochargers, DSC (dynamic stability control), dynamic drive (active stabilizer bars), active steering, and xDrive.
  • Suspension repair procedures.
  • Brakes, steering and ABS troubleshooting and repair.
  • Heating and air-conditioning repair, including A/C component replacement.
  • Body and hood repairs and adjustments.
  • Electrical system service, with an easy-to-use illustrated component locator section.
  • Comprehensive wiring schematics, including fuses and grounds.
  • BMW OBD II diagnostic trouble codes, SAE-defined OBD II P-codes, as well as basic scan tool operation.
  • BMW factory tolerances, wear limits, adjustments and tightening torques.
 

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A red cog also over here, 2007-08 56.000kms. It appeared and disappeared within 30 secs. No slip but a weird grinding noise when the plates engage with some torque.

I already had an appointment at the dealer for a clutch check early feb but it is getting serious now :sad1:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A red cog also over here, 2007-08 56.000kms. It appeared and disappeared within 30 secs. No slip but a weird grinding noise when the plates engage with some torque.

I already had an appointment at the dealer for a clutch check early feb but it is getting serious now :sad1:
Get it checked mate. Better safe than sorry.

Mine went in today to establish the cause of my random Red Cog and annoying electrical woes. After i advised the tech as to what the problem might be, gave them a list of do's and don'ts with regards to my car (no driving or washing it etc) and a general making of my point i left it with the workshop around 8am this morning. At 10am i got a phone call to confirm my suspisions and to inform me they had found at least 2 broken wires on the tailgate loom and wear showing on the other 3 loom channels. A new loom and harness has been ordered and im looking at getting the car back tommorrow. Thank god for warranties as it looks like it might not have been a cheap affair.

The Red Cog fault code did not show up on either the key fob check or the diag-port scan so the dealer has put it down to computer error and nothing to worry about. The system has however shown slow operation of the SMG pump due to lack of current from the battery which explains the slower shift changes when the battery has had a hard night.

So, not a bad service from my dealer so far. Here's hoping im not back there too soon and that its problem solved.

Eddie
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Got the car back this avo after a day of having the tail end stripped and rebuilt. According to the tech the looms were a ***** to fit as alot of it goes through the middle of two very close skins. The result:

Well the tailgate glass switch now works as its supposed to and doesnt pop open when im just about to pull off.
I now have a very quick fire up from pressing the start button. What ive been experiencing for the past 2 weeks is a nerve racking 'will it or wont it start?' after i press the button.
The gear changes from cold are much quicker (yes im still in the same mode). Im assuming the SMG pump is now getting its full allocation of current and is back to being a happy component in a happy car.
Didnt cost me a penny (other than warranty payments), just a little time on the phone and some questions on here.
...... And they washed and valleted it for me.

So all thats left to do is see if my battery drain warnings go away and the clock stays on. I'll let you know.

Eddie :goldcup:
 
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