I understand the US citizens are not as used to high quality interiors and fit-and-finish as europeans, no offense.
Being a Z8 owner, I take your opinion very seriously.
However, I can't for the LIFE of me understand why anyone would like an X6/5m or the new 7-series. To me, they are the pinnacle of how BMW should NOT make cars and the fastest way to end up in skid row by brand dilution.
The interior of the F01 7 and X5/6 is below par, especially compared to the E65/66. I don't understand why nobody here agrees with me, aren't we all used to cars like the E39 and E65?
A friend of mine is a professional in the automotive field, working for an automotive supplier. They benchmark a lot of interior parts, and he ofcourse knows much more about a button or stalkswitch than we can imagine. According to him, the stalkswitches and other switchgear are a joke.
As you know, I spent a lot of time in E65/66 and own an E30,E34,E38 etc. All cars that are of much higher building quality than any current BMW.
Look at the seat fixtures on the Z8 or doorsill lists on E38/39 and compare to the current crop. Jesus wept.
Last edited by Sebring NL; 17th October 2009 at 15:23.
Are you talking about brand dilution from a quality standpoint or a model standpoint?
If you are looking at it from a model standpoint, you should be criticizing the 5 series GT, not the x5m and 7 series.
The thing about the x5m is that to an extent, BMW has always had an x5m, with the 4.8is.
Thanks for the compliment. Its all relative I suppose.
I've driven the F01 and 02 with and without the sport package. I agree with you when comparing the current X5 to the last generation- the interior materials are not quite as premium feeling. I don't think you can fairly compare the Z8 because that was a special model with its own bespoke switch gear. I didn't notice anything wrong with the interior of the new 7er. I much prefer the layout and "feel" of the new interior to the E65. I never felt the materials in the E65 were that special so perhaps I am not looking at things like the switch gear.
I believe BMW has only one thing to worry about- do the cars drive "right". If they do, no problem. If they don't they will have problems. Fortunately, these new ones really do drive really well. My issue with the F01/02 is the large double kidney- its just a little big for my tastes- but whatever. The new 7 is a phenomenal machine.
The new X5 is great too. We have one, not the M, just a regular 4.8 with the active steering and active roll bars etc, its terrific. Its a better overall car than the previous X5 but its not quite as fun.
Hope you are well.
__________________
All the best,
Jerry 00 Z8 Jet Black/Red Sport / some others
Ofcourse the Z8 is sort of a one-off statement, but still, its shows what could have been. Cost efficiency comes to play ofcourse, but BMW spents money on nonsense stuff where it should have gone to better materials.
The E65/6 has a nice ' cloth' like doorrubber, which is normal rubber on the F01.
The E39 has 10-piece door sill covers, the F01 has single-piece cheap-o's.
The stalkswitches on E65/66 are optical (meaning, the movement doesn't wear at all) where the F01 items are made by a french company that couldn't make a quality product if their life depended on it. They look and feel like Chrysler PT Cruiser items
To me, stuff like that is important.
I agree with you that the handling of all these new BMW's is remarkable, but that has always been the case with each new generation. I also drove a 12-month old E66 on monday and a brand new one on tuesday, and there is a big difference in handling between brand-new and one year old. As you know, I spent a lot of hours in 7-series and own my third E38 now, plus we maintain 2 E32 750iL's, so I have some idea of the evolution in the flagship model. And the F01 is the only car that I wouldn't prefer to its predecessor.
I guess my main problem with the X6/5M is that they are called M-cars. I love X5 4.6/8iS's, and those are just as M as the new X5/6M. The 4.6/8 also handled great etc compared to the normal model. I don't see the added value here for calling it M, its just marketing. Turbo's,automatic gearbox, 4x4. Its horrible. They should call the 135 coupe with performance pack etc an M135i, and the X5/6 simply iS. Nomenclature is very important, the M-brand is quite sensitive for that.
I think they have to put the M label on these SAVs because they need to make the profits and they need the branding. Can the M brand survive SAVs? Yes. So long as cars such as the M3 and M5 stay true to form and offer a more sporting experience than those from AMG- which are getting better all the time.
I didn't know what you pointed out about the interiors- and I think that's the point- not many people except the "car geeks" will notice and they are in business to make money- its not a charity. Now, this might affect how you perceive the quality of the cars, and that might cost them a sale with you some day. I think their bet is they will make more profits and still add new clients and they are not too worried about the few who leave but I do believe what you say and think you make good points. To my less educated eyes, I find the new F01 interior to be a big improvement over the E65 which I felt the knobs felt a little cheap (in original guise) and the layout and general ambiance is just OK.
__________________
All the best,
Jerry 00 Z8 Jet Black/Red Sport / some others
I just need to ask, what do you mean by normal rubber on the door rubber or by sill covers. Im sorry my termonoly is not quite up to date on the euro slang. If you mean the interior panels, I have to disagree. I just bought a new 750 and the door panels are 80% LEATHER. As far as the switches, i cant vouch for their long term reliability as ive only had the car for a little over a month but the switches feel ALOT better than the stalks in my E39M5 and a familys members E66.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring NL
Jerry
Ofcourse the Z8 is sort of a one-off statement, but still, its shows what could have been. Cost efficiency comes to play ofcourse, but BMW spents money on nonsense stuff where it should have gone to better materials.
The E65/6 has a nice ' cloth' like doorrubber, which is normal rubber on the F01.
The E39 has 10-piece door sill covers, the F01 has single-piece cheap-o's.
The stalkswitches on E65/66 are optical (meaning, the movement doesn't wear at all) where the F01 items are made by a french company that couldn't make a quality product if their life depended on it. They look and feel like Chrysler PT Cruiser items
To me, stuff like that is important.
I agree with you that the handling of all these new BMW's is remarkable, but that has always been the case with each new generation. I also drove a 12-month old E66 on monday and a brand new one on tuesday, and there is a big difference in handling between brand-new and one year old. As you know, I spent a lot of hours in 7-series and own my third E38 now, plus we maintain 2 E32 750iL's, so I have some idea of the evolution in the flagship model. And the F01 is the only car that I wouldn't prefer to its predecessor.
I guess my main problem with the X6/5M is that they are called M-cars. I love X5 4.6/8iS's, and those are just as M as the new X5/6M. The 4.6/8 also handled great etc compared to the normal model. I don't see the added value here for calling it M, its just marketing. Turbo's,automatic gearbox, 4x4. Its horrible. They should call the 135 coupe with performance pack etc an M135i, and the X5/6 simply iS. Nomenclature is very important, the M-brand is quite sensitive for that.
I have to disagree as well. The interior quality of my M5 and all the F01s and E70 M's I have driven have been exceptional. I have had nothing but praise. I have the full leather interiors on my vehicles, and had the extended leather on my other 2 BMWs (2007 E60 530i Msport, 2008 E70 4.8i fairly well optioned). No interior wear or tear to speak of at all.
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