996 TT vs M5 observations...

[Jacob Lee]

There was another thread on the E39 section where a new 996 TT owner felt that based on his first takes, the 996 TT -

a) did not apparently have as good a throttle response as the M5?

b) the 996 TT doesn't handle as well as the M5 going around the corners unless you stay on the gas?

c) distorted weight balance on the 996 TT? e.g. owner said he lets the gas go and really feels the back come around?

ok - so I've only ever had one test drive in a 996 TT, but my reaction was the exact opposite. I thought the throttle response was actually a bit faster and stronger than the M5. I also thought it stuck through the corners a lot more tighter regardless of on the gas or not, and I'm probably not a good enough driver to judge what is and isn't distorted weight balance but again, my impression was it sure felt a lot more solid and cornering on rails in the 996 TT than the M5.

Hence my instant conversion and goal to replace my M5 with the TT instead of waiting for the new M5.

Any ex-beast owners here care to comment on this? I'm now sort of having some small doubts creep in because I remember my conclusions (above) quite well, I'm having problems trying to remember the "feel" based on my one test drive.

[M Power]

go for another test drive.. The car costs a lot and you don't want to make too costly an error. Having said that I cannot think of one negative post re any TT drive..

I have yet to spend decent seat time in a TT but have spent hours driving a C4S and it certainly handles like it is on rails thru any corner.. getting off the gas midway in any car will promote some degree of oversteer, but I felt it was less (!) pronounced in the Porsche - I did have the computer PSM operating though..

Either way, the cars are somewhat dissimilar to draw any real comparisons too.. just my opinion of course..

[TCM]

I agree with M Power. I have been lucky enough to drive a couple 996tts thanks to msindi and wpcalvin7, and have never felt the symptoms described above. You have to change your driving style a bit (not letting off the gas in mid corner, but rather, accelerate through it). But once you accomplish that the 996tt is as stable as a rock. It outperfoms the M5 in every single catagory except for maybe the throttle response IMHO. With sport engaged, the M5 is quite responsive. On another topic, if you are planning to get rid of the M5 for the 996tt, I woudl strongly considering keeping the M5 and getting a Z06. The 996tt is a great car but is nowhere near the M5 in terms of luxury, build quality, and comfort. If you have another car that is capable of seating 4, then go for the 99tt. It is a blast to drive.

[greg]

I saw the same post. Comments below

a) did not apparently have as good a throttle response as the M5?

well, it doesn't leap as quickly as an M5 does when you stomp on the throttle from 2000 RPM. There is some turbo lag. On the other hand, throttle response, say, for a blip to shift - is fine, and in aggressive driving with the revs up, such as on the track, the lag is minimal. All turbocharged cars have some lag, and a good driver simply compensates for that by getting on the throttle a little sooner.

b) the 996 TT doesn't handle as well as the M5 going around the corners unless you stay on the gas?

Load of crap. The 996TT outhandles the M5 hands down. What the guy felt is a Porsche trademark, which is the significantly greater degree to which you can adjust the cornering balance of the car with your foot. The 996TT is actually LESS dramatic like this than a regular 2WD 911. The M5 is far less sensitive to throttle input, especially at the limit, where no amount of throttle reduction can thwart the understeer.

c) distorted weight balance on the 996 TT? e.g. owner said he lets the gas go and really feels the back come around?

Same as above. It is all about weight transfer. The throttle should be properly modulated in turns near the limit. SLIGHT changes are all that is required to adjust your line. This is what makes Porsches so much fun to drive. Although the 996TT is probably the most docile in this regard of any 911 ever made, and it is pretty tough to get it to "come around", it is still bad practice to lift all the way in a turn. Older Porsches would really bite you for this. The M5 will not.

[Andy-UK]

Originally posted by greg
it is still bad practice to lift all the way in a turn. Older Porsches would really bite you for this.

Thats the point in owning an old Porsche. You have to learn to respect it. Far better how it used to be rather than all this electronic gadgetry nowadays.

[Hamann7]

Originally posted by Andy-UK
Thats the point in owning an old Porsche. You have to learn to respect it. Far better how it used to be rather than all this electronic gadgetry nowadays.

Or a GT2, which can reward a good driver as much as it will punish a bad one.

If you know how to drive a GT2, almost no cars will be able to keep up with you. The 996TT is much easier to drive, although slightly less capable around the corners.

[Adam]

Originally posted by greg
I
Load of crap. The 996TT outhandles the M5 hands down. What the guy felt is a Porsche trademark, which is the significantly greater degree to which you can adjust the cornering balance of the car with your foot. The 996TT is actually LESS dramatic like this than a regular 2WD 911. The M5 is far less sensitive to throttle input, especially at the limit, where no amount of throttle reduction can thwart the understeer.

Spot on as usual Greg,

all the best
adam

[johann]

Just felt I had to comment on some things Greg wrote

Originally posted by greg
The M5 is far less sensitive to throttle input, especially at the limit, where no amount of throttle reduction can thwart the understeer.

That is only true if you as a driver made the mistake to steer even more when you first get understeer instead of compensating by open up the steering a tiny bit and work with the throttle. The same type of understeer can be seen in any car and is related to driver errors. For instance there is a perfect example in the record attempt on Nordchsleife with TechArt's super Porcshe being driven by Roland Asch.

Originally posted by greg
Older Porsches would really bite you for this. The M5 will not.

Yes it will if you drive fast enough and without DSC.

Cheers,
/Johan

[mweel]

Since I made those comments maybe I should explain a little bit more.

Those comments were from the first hour of driving the car. Obviously the more I drive the car the more those limitations based on my driving skills become less. They were more my limitations, not the cars - that should have been assumed. It's quite obvious an all wheel drive car that’s lighter is going to handle much better then the M5.

The point I was trying to make was that the Porsche is a MUCH different car then the M5 to drive, at first glance without fully understanding the dynamics of the Porsche one could come to the conclusions I did fairly easy until getting some time behind the wheel.

Let put it this way.. I have driven the car more and understand the dynamics much better. The only things I miss now are the four seats

Your right about the turbo lag. It's just a mind set that you want to be high in the RPM range when it makes sense. It would still be nice to have the power across the entire band.

If you do not no how to drive the Porsche the M5 does handle better (it's an easier car to drive going from the M5 to the Porsche).

Understanding how the cars dynamics work I must say this is the most incredible car I have ever driven. I am learning more and more every day.


Greg:

The TT handles better then the M5 hands down. Who said that?

I said.. "The TT doesn't handle as well as the M5 going around the corners unless you stay on the gas."

This is true...

Go into the corner full blast on the M5 and let the gas go, you don't feel the weight shift nearly as bad.

Go into the corner full blast in the porsche and let the gas go. You will be correcting the car.

The reason I said this because in the M5 I could go hard into the corner and just stay constant on the gas at the limit. In the porsche you it seems like you need to accelerate out of the turn at the limit.

Would you have any more tips going from an M5 to a Porsche? I am learning them by trial and error but that could be expensive

//MWEELS

[Oak]

I think you just need to learn how to drive the turbo.