Hunt Them Down and Nuke Them

[BIMMEUP]

johann,

First of all, I don't believe that men can make their own interpretations in scripture. 2 Peter 1:20-21 says "knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
To understand Scripture, I believe that you have to look at what you're reading from 3 views. What was the grammatical nature of the verse, what time in history was it written and where, and what is the literal translation given from the context of the chapter it is within. Usually, the context of the chapter and the verses surrounding point you to what is being said.

With regards to purgatory, there is no scripture in the Bible that describes a middle point between the believer and God. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."
After the believer dies, they are instantly with the Lord.

BIMMEUP

[JP]

I agree with Johan ,
in the sense that ,
one can twist and turn ,
state excerpts ,
take out off context , aso aso ..........,
and this all depending on what one wants
to prove ,underline ,state....... ,
and prove ones "right" ?

Beside the fact ,
that I really think that stating from
lets say "letters off belief"
is rather a bad than a good ID
{seems to be part off the problems }
One should ,if you want to anyway ,
keep in mind that these letters,book,....
are from times long gone ,times that where
diff. than these ,times where people EXPRESSED themselves
in a diff. way ,times where values where about sword's
and seed for crying out loud ,
times where whe can only GUESS who's who ,......................... .

In the present ,there's already misunderstanding
between generations ,hek even technologie
is not always compatible . {huh}
Let's not make things more diff. then what
they are ,and let's concentrate on the present .

[johann]

Originally posted by BIMMEUP
With regards to purgatory, there is no scripture in the Bible that describes a middle point between the believer and God. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."
After the believer dies, they are instantly with the Lord.

BIMMEUP

I made a language mistake, I was refering to the eternal pain after final judgement for those whi don't belive, sounds suspicious close to Islam to me.

Do you really believe that the Bible shall be interpreted litteraly?

/Johan

[bobafett]

Wasn't the Koran written in Arabic? We also have to take into account translations here.

Rob: I for one believe more in land titles and ownership than the promise of God. I understand that people hold faith, but who's to say that both sides don't have the same understanding and claims to ownership?

Also, I'd like to note that I wish to apologize if I haven't made it clear so. I still stand by my views where I will neither promote Judaism or Islam - which I seemed to have lost in the heat of battle, so to speak (thanks to Dave for pointing that out).

--Dan

[MEnthusiast]

same for the old testament.

as far as one religious group controlling media or politicians in the USA I say- get real. the US media is a lot more complicated than that.



To generalize this way is no better than the temptation to "nuke em all". We must not succumb to this. We are educated- and we hope enlightened- individuals. We should not want to harm innocent people- even in retaliation- it is in the time of being tested that we will find out what our real principles are.

by the way- I believe a strong retaliation is absolutely justified and necessary here.

[johann]

I found soem quotes from the Bible that interpreted litteraly and out of their context sounds horrifying.

Leviticus 24
16
anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 2
23
And as for the Avvites who lived in villages as far as Gaza, the Caphtorites coming out from Caphtor destroyed them and settled in their place.)
24
"Set out now and cross the Arnon Gorge. See, I have given into your hand Sihon the Amorite, king of Heshbon, and his country. Begin to take possession of it and engage him in battle.
25
This very day I will begin to put the terror and fear of you on all the nations under heaven. They will hear reports of you and will tremble and be in anguish because of you."

Isaiah 42
13
The LORD will march out like a mighty man, like a warrior he will stir up his zeal; with a shout he will raise the battle cry and will triumph over his enemies.

Psalm 144 Of David.
1
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

1 Samuel 17
46
This day the LORD will hand you over to me, and I'll strike you down and cut off your head. Today I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel.

Leviticus 24
14
"Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him.

Leviticus 24
23
Then Moses spoke to the Israelites, and they took the blasphemer outside the camp and stoned him. The Israelites did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Numbers 18
22
From now on the Israelites must not go near the Tent of Meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die.

Mark 3
29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

John 10
33
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Revelation 16
9
They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him.

Numbers 31
3
So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites and to carry out the LORD's vengeance on them.

Numbers 31
7
They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man.

I think that is enough to prove my point.

/Johan

[BIMMEUP]

johann,

Yes you're right. Both Muslim and Christian faiths believe in eternal punishment after death. What I have been referring to is the punishment before death. Again, I'm not saying that all Muslims practice their belief in this way, I'm just saying that that is the underlying saying in the Koran. It's waging war against those who don't believe or punishing them somehow. I will note also that there are those who call themselves Christians who do the same types of things. The KKK in America claims to be Christians and followers of the Bible and thus are implementing their racism because of it. They are totally wrong and a disgrace to the name Christian.
So I'm not trying to point out just Muslims and I'm sorry if it came across that way. As I said before, there are people who do horrible things in the name of Christ and under the banner of Christianity.

With regards to taking the Bible literally, I wasn't saying that. I was saying that people cannot look at Scripture loosely and interpret it to their own liking. That is what the KKK is doing. I said that you have to look at the grammatical interpretation (original language of Hebrew in OT and Greek in the NT), historical interpretation (ie what it was like where they lived, what kinds of words they used to describe things etc.), and the literal interpretation (what the context of the chapter is).

By the way, good question johann
BIMMEUP

[KKelly]

Nice to know we have some educated people here. I find that quoting a book that only some people believe in to determine a right to a piece of land to be a recipe for disaster.

Most of the conflicts I previously referenced go back hundreds of years and thousands in the case of the Middle East. After WWII, Israel was "given back" to the Jews. Well, there happened to be some people living there that didn't agree with this decision. They had only been there a few hundred years or so. Call me crazy but what the hell did people expect to happen? I wonder what some of our Midwesterners would do if the United Nations gave back most of the land to the Indians?

In the Balkans we have revenge taking place for some massacre three hundred years ago. There is always some justification or reason but the reality is simply pain and suffering.

I guess the explanation is simple. We are human and you have to take the good with the bad.

Fas,

I agree totally. A fellow I know through my track days has a relative that witnessed an attack by two men in San Jose yesterday on what sounded like a Hindu or Sikh (sp?). No one made a move to interfere or stop the attack on a totally innocent person. So, have we come very far since 1941 where we threw Americans in camps? I guess not.

--------

By the way, yesterday they were interviewing some general and when they asked him about retaliatory strikes he responded, "This is war. There is no "retaliation", only the next battle." I thought that was a great comment.

[BIMMEUP]

Of the Bible verses you're quoting,

Many of them are actual historical events that took place. Others are prophetic of times still to come. The Bible is divided into many different books. You have the historical books (ie Genesis with regards to creation), prophetic books (like Duetoronomy), the Gospels in the NT (speaking of Christ), and then there's Revelation which describes of what's to come.

BIMMEUP

[johann]

Originally posted by MEnthusiast
by the way- I believe a strong retaliation is absolutely justified and necessary here.

I do agree.

[johann]

Originally posted by BIMMEUP
Of the Bible verses you're quoting,

Many of them are actual historical events that took place. Others are prophetic of times still to come. The Bible is divided into many different books. You have the historical books (ie Genesis with regards to creation), prophetic books (like Duetoronomy), the Gospels in the NT (speaking of Christ), and then there's Revelation which describes of what's to come.

BIMMEUP

My point is that if you take verses out of their context they may sound terifying, wheter it is the bible or the Koran. Don't you agree?

/Johan