Off Topic ForumThis is the place for mature discussions not necessarily related to cars. This is however also moderated and only registered members are allowed to post. No religion and no vicious attacks.
So what exactly is the problem? I would guess that the clandestine strike, violating the sovereignty of one of our purported allies, is not a decision to be made without significant consideration as the diplomatic, military and political ramifications are far-reaching. I don't think The Prez has the concerns of disgruntled keyboard jockeys at the front of his decision tree.
They've been working on this SINCE AUGUST! If the guys running the op say, "Mr. President, we've got this guy in our sights, we need to go," you don't go to ******* sleep. The report even states there was disbelief from the top advisers when he said that - so it certainly isn't only 'my' concern as a "keyboard jockey." Who knows what could happen in those 16 hours - ie. a tip-off, he gets away, Tora Bora, etc. He said he'd go in to Pak during his campaign, he's had the intel for months and plenty of time to make the decision. It's not like they came to him and said, "Mr. President, we just found Bin Laden last night, can we move on him?" They had built two mockups at Bagram, they were in training, the intel was good, and he goes to sleep.
Actually the team never said that they had him in sight, in fact they made it clear that the evidence was circumstantial at best. It wasn't the Pakistanis or a diplomatic row President was concerned with as much as having to deal with the ramifications of another black hawk down scenario with potentially nothing in the compound that caused him to pause. This is just my reasoning as I tend to give the benfit of doubt to the president and the seal team in this instance, this was a great victory and I am willing to put aside my disdain for the current fiscal policies and offer my congratulations for a job well done.
They've been working on this SINCE AUGUST! If the guys running the op say, "Mr. President, we've got this guy in our sights, we need to go," you don't go to ******* sleep. The report even states there was disbelief from the top advisers when he said that - so it certainly isn't only 'my' concern as a "keyboard jockey." Who knows what could happen in those 16 hours - ie. a tip-off, he gets away, Tora Bora, etc. He said he'd go in to Pak during his campaign, he's had the intel for months and plenty of time to make the decision. It's not like they came to him and said, "Mr. President, we just found Bin Laden last night, can we move on him?" They had built two mockups at Bagram, they were in training, the intel was good, and he goes to sleep.
You don't see a problem with that?
No I don't. The Prez and his advisors have a better understanding of what sort of timing considerations they are working under than the keyboard jockeys. As to 'disbelief,' it was apparently more like 'disagreement' as to how to approach the raid.
The risks were well known during the run up, the CIA said they were confident he was there, if not 100%. Risk vs. Reward. I understand not wanting to put our guys in harm's way, and I give credit for him getting his man. But it's just another example of him not having the courage of conviction to do what's necessary when the opportunity presents itself. When he finally gave the go order, they had to wait a day because of weather. Effectively, that's a 30hr break. This whole "leading from behind" thing that they've been talking up over the past month is absolute horseshit. Just look at the mess in Libya - how's that working out?
My comments are directed towards his leadership ability - nothing he does makes me think "Commander in Chief."
Perhaps I'm too hawkish when it comes to OBL since it's been a part of my life for the past ten years and reasonable people can disagree. I'll leave it there.
Let's keep this place a politics-free zone. Nothing good comes out of those discussions.
Please, no. I'm all for religion out of here, but not politics. I find the discussion stimulating and, ocassionally, funny when some Republican starts a trolling thread.
Seems glowrider allows political discussions since he become a dedicated moderator on Off-Topic.
No issues for me as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
Seems glowrider allows political discussions since he become a dedicated moderator on Off-Topic.
No issues for me as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
It only gets our of hand when certain overzealous individuals post. They haven't for a while, so things have been good. Glowrider does a pretty good job, although his righty-ness comes out sometimes.
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