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Old 8th October 2009, 19:46   #21
Nabio
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Originally Posted by glowrider View Post
I thought you were a lib?!

Well said - another member I am in agreement with for the first (and probably last) time ever
Just out of curiosity why do you think I'm a "lib?" I do consider myself liberal in the sense that I believe in strong individual freedoms. I respect others' beliefs and their right to hold them. However I am not a US social democracy "liberal." Government does have a purpose, but I think it needs to be far more limited in scope than really anyone on Capitol Hill believes, whatever side of the aisle they are on.
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Last edited by Nabio; 8th October 2009 at 19:46.
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Old 8th October 2009, 19:51   #22
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Originally Posted by Diny View Post
I'm stumped, then. Enlighten us. And I'm not being a smartass with a "bring it, biatch," tone. I'm really curious as to how you think this might work and how the obstacles that I've posted can be overcome.
List the obstacles and we'll discuss them. This could be an interesting discussion Cristian, I would like to bottom it because I instinctively like the idea of circumventing suppression that seems counter-productive.

A bit (not totally) like prohibition...
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Old 8th October 2009, 19:53   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Envisage0 View Post
List the obstacles and we'll discuss them.
Check post #15.
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Old 8th October 2009, 21:08   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabio View Post
Just out of curiosity why do you think I'm a "lib?" I do consider myself liberal in the sense that I believe in strong individual freedoms. I respect others' beliefs and their right to hold them. However I am not a US social democracy "liberal." Government does have a purpose, but I think it needs to be far more limited in scope than really anyone on Capitol Hill believes, whatever side of the aisle they are on.
Previous postings, but maybe I'm confusing your posts with someone else's.
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Old 8th October 2009, 23:20   #25
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Originally Posted by Diny View Post
Check post #15.
There are no obstacles in post 15.

You post questions that are not very illuminating.

Turn them into definitive opinions/statements with evidence and we can make this interesting...

Last edited by Envisage0; 8th October 2009 at 23:20.
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Old 8th October 2009, 23:36   #26
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Yea but you can't get chisels for free anywhere. Lets see...

Who would manufacture it? If someone gets a hold of the facilities' locations, it would be an easy target to halt production.
This bit deals with security. Trying to undermine criminals means that they will get pissed off because someone is getting in the way of them making money. More laws and bans means that criminals simply have to work around stuff. But providing free drugs cuts directly into their market.

Quote:
What quality? The best quality will be hard to come by since the criminals are probably willing to pay way more than whoever is making it for free.
This deals with supply and demand. If it's free, you can't really expect it to be of that good a quality. There is always a market for quality. You're not distributing rubber bands here. The fact that the criminals still have the good stuff means that there will be little supply for this free stuff.

Quote:
Most importantly, it's a lot of work, man! Why the would someone make it for free? Nothing's free in this world. Government funding? Yea imagine the political campaigns for that when elections come around.
That is referring to logistics. You need the facilities, the sources, and the workers to process the drugs. Who would do that for free? Would this be government sponsored? The guy who suggested this doesnt sound like he was talking about government (which makes the security issue even bigger), so who would make drugs instead of watching some porn? Especially when they'd be giving away the drugs for free.

Government-sponsored or not, that plan is just asking for trouble.

Last edited by Diny; 8th October 2009 at 23:38.
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Old 9th October 2009, 09:22   #27
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Originally Posted by Diny View Post
This bit deals with security. Trying to undermine criminals means that they will get pissed off because someone is getting in the way of them making money. More laws and bans means that criminals simply have to work around stuff. But providing free drugs cuts directly into their market.
What's wrong with pissing off criminals? What's wrong with undermining them? I think that would be an admirable thing to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diny View Post
This deals with supply and demand. If it's free, you can't really expect it to be of that good a quality. There is always a market for quality. You're not distributing rubber bands here. The fact that the criminals still have the good stuff means that there will be little supply for this free stuff.
It can be whatever quality it needs to be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diny View Post
That is referring to logistics. You need the facilities, the sources, and the workers to process the drugs. Who would do that for free? Would this be government sponsored? The guy who suggested this doesnt sound like he was talking about government (which makes the security issue even bigger), so who would make drugs instead of watching some porn? Especially when they'd be giving away the drugs for free. Government-sponsored or not, that plan is just asking for trouble.
Of course it would have to be done by the public sector . I propose that production is done in a high security prison with the prisoners used as workers, with preference given to child molestors and rapists. They could have privileges too, like as many free samples as they or their friends want.

For the bigger picture, look at this.


A crisis in UK drug policy

According to the EU funded European Monitoring Centre the UK now has the highest overall drug use in Europe.
The Home Office has stated that as much 55% of property crime is related to fundraising to buy illegal drugs.
Home Office research by York University estimates that the cost of illegal drug use in the UK is between £12 and £18 billion.
Significantly for all of these disturbing facts is that they all display trends that have worsened steadily over the past three decades, and continue to worsen.

This current crisis has been precipitated by the confluence of a number of issues:

The increase in use of prohibited drugs
The most dramatic example of this trend is that heroin use has risen by 2000% to over 250,000 since 1971.

Lack of government control over price of prohibited drugs
Due to the nature of the criminal market, the price of illegal drugs is unregulated and they are sold at hugely inflated prices. For dependent users this creates enormous pressure to offend to support their habit. Note that there is negligible crime associated with fund-raising by dependent users of legal drugs.

An unwillingness by successive governments to consider alternative policy options in light of changes in external conditions
Drug legislation is essentially unchanged since the Misuse of Drugs Act (MDA) became law in 1971, the Act itself based on an approach to dealing with drugs that dates back to the Victoria era. The MDA is now colliding with dramatically changed circumstances, most significantly a massive increase in the use of illegal drugs.

Last edited by Envisage0; 9th October 2009 at 09:24.
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Old 9th October 2009, 21:23   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glowrider View Post
I am not saying that fundamentally that the idea of either issue is different - government is stupid - however, there is a law on the books in one case and not one in the other case. THAT'S the difference. One place is enforcing their laws, another is going out of their way to find new, even more ridiculous ones.
Here's another example of this terrible law: Free the Clogged-Nose 25! by Jeffrey A. Tucker
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Old 9th October 2009, 22:53   #29
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Here's another example of this terrible law: Free the Clogged-Nose 25! by Jeffrey A. Tucker
Bern- I think you're misinterpreting my making a distinction with acceptance and support of a preposterous law. A county is allowed to make and enforce its own laws if it goes through the proper channels. This county did and to them it has proven effective. And the distinction is in one case a law is being enforced and in the other there is no law whatsoever.

Last edited by glowrider; 9th October 2009 at 22:56.
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