To my fellow board members: request for comments

[Jim Dolan]

Whew, I read all this and am flabbergasted. I feel so poor. Dan I hope you're not under indictment anywhere. Do you need help with your taxes, I do California as well.

[MTY]

Originally posted by bobafett


I was fortunate to be in a cash position to buy another M5, fully pay for my 360 Spyder (due in less than two weeks! ), and put down hefty deposits on two Aston Vanquishes (long story), a Murcielago and the SL55. I also went diablo shopping over the weekend and am on McLaren Cars Ltd. waiting customer list for any previously owned F1's that might come into their hands (I wasn't goign to mention this until I was sure it's going to happen, but for reasons described below, it's ok now).

Hello,

I have nothing against you I simple don't belive you. At your age is almost impossible to have all those cars. Sure you are a nice guy, you are now trying to fix the mistakes you made telling all those false things to the other menbers.

Question 1:

- Has anyone here ever seen a pic of his cars ????? I simply can't belive that. I suppose he can affrod a digital camera ?????

Question 2:

- Why the hell do you want two aston vanquish ??? Isn't one enough ???

Question 3:

- Can you prove what you say in the quote ???

Question 4:

- Do you think people are stupid enough to belive all that crap ???



Sorry, just my thoughts. I'm trying to be honest.


Best regards.

[greg]

MTY -

Several of us have met Dan, aka Bobafett, myself included. He is a great guy, smart and mature for his age. He most definitely was driving an M5, and he knows how to flog a racing kart, too. His wealth and how he came by it really isn't any of our business, but I can tell you it "usually" comes from a combination of good judgement and luck. One or the other alone is rarely sufficient.

it is OK for you to be skeptical - many of us are. But in the future, please tone down your public acusations - it is one thing to say "I think" but is another to say "you are" without proof of your own.

/Greg

[JetBoy]

Why not MtY ?

[1C00lVC]

Originally posted by MTY


Hello,

I have nothing against you I simple don't belive you. At your age is almost impossible to have all those cars. Sure you are a nice guy, you are now trying to fix the mistakes you made telling all those false things to the other menbers.

Question 1:

- Has anyone here ever seen a pic of his cars ????? I simply can't belive that. I suppose he can affrod a digital camera ?????

Question 2:

- Why the hell do you want two aston vanquish ??? Isn't one enough ???

Question 3:

- Can you prove what you say in the quote ???

Question 4:

- Do you think people are stupid enough to belive all that crap ???



Sorry, just my thoughts. I'm trying to be honest.


Best regards.

Answer 1) come to think of it, I never saw a picture of Dan's car..... But I drove behind him like mad trying to keep up. Oh yeah. I didnt see a picture, but I actually waxed and polished his black M5's rear right fender...

Answer 2) I'd get one, if I could fit into it..


Answer 3) Why should he have to.


Answer 4) Hummmm... How do I answer that?

[lear]

hey MTY maybe you should spend your time here
A better place for you!
just ignore him if you don't believe him

[Need4Spd]

I didn't read through all the posts but I really worry that whatever it is you're going to do with the money is going to turn out badly, as in being taken for ride, and I'm not talking about in a car. I know from your post traffic that you are sensible and mature, so I'm probably not telling you anything new if I suggest you seek out VERY competent legal counsel at firm with a great big reputation (and malpractice policy) before you get into whatever this is. Selling off all your possessions and sinking much if not most of what you have into any single venture is inherently risky regardless. You have an enviable position of being literally set for life even as things are. I hope this all turns out VERY well for you, but I really worry that disaster is about to strike. Please be careful.

As to your car situation, I agree with the others that this is too big a change. There should be no reason why you couldn't keep at least one of your nice cars, like an M5 or M3. I know it took me about 40 years to get my M5, but I see no problem with someone half my age also having one (or more).

[Jacob Lee]

Dan,

Through your posts here, you sound like a very reasonable and creditable person. So a reasonable response is in order:

-just to play devil's advocate regarding the possibility of 25x investments in 18 months or some similar time frame; yes, i can easily believe you could have found one. i am not saying it's likely, but it would be sort of circular logic to assume that just because I and everyone in my social circle never heard of or thought of one, that no one else could either. for example - i am most definitely, not even in the slightest, saying this is what you might be doing, but just as an analogy, one example would be obtaining medical grade cocaine for X dollars and then selling it to a major distributor for 25x, who would then make a profit of more than 100-200x from that original X dollar investment. so again, not EVEN saying this is anything remotely close to what your investment scheme might be, but since this is certainly possible at least for the high gain and short time part, who am i to say you haven't found a similar investment type but without the illegal and highly risky consequences attached? i personally believe the nature of economics dictates that the greater the potential reward, the greater the risk attached. but like i said, it's faulty logic to assume if i can't, you can't. so who knows?

i believe it's pretty much the same all around the world that it is only considered "inappropriate" for someone your age to have the type of car collection you do now and/or have ordered if you did not earn the assets to acquire those goods yourself. if you're 20 and daddy bought everything for you, most people think it highly inappropriate. if you're 20 and you earned every penny whether through business acumen or luck, it's your money - spend it all on the biggest purple gumball in the universe if you want.

-you clarified your position that the driving force was the need to liquidate assets that weren't really needed in your lifestyle to maximize your investment returns. more power to you - only you can say what is and what isn't an acceptable lifestyle sacrafice for the gains. however, i'm with the camp that thinks it quite odd that you can't reach the gains you seek without having to give up every performance car you own/ordered. you said you own your potential 75k M5 so it wasn't a matter of affording the $1500/month to finance a car (i'll use the same number as a prior poster to continue his example) but needing to sell the M5 for additional capital as part of your overal investing funding.

ok, fine - sell the M5 for the hypothetical 75k. but invest only 48k of that sales proceed while liquidating and investing 100% of everything else you mentioned; use the held back 27k as the reserve to pay 18 months worth of financing; this point was already brought out but i'll reiterate it as well - by actually using these example numbers to calculate the "lost" potential gain, you can see just why some people think it's odd you can be smart enough to find and capitalize on such an extraordinary investment scheme, no matter how unlikely it may sound, but not be able to take advantage of it without literally "selling the shirt off your back" kind of sacrafice you propose. give up the potential 25x gain on 27k and you are actually only losing about 675k. a windfall to the majority of americans, but petty cash against your 9 figure target. unless this investment scheme requires a very specific X target funding level to get in on it, and you are exactly X-27k short, you can see why it just sounsd so strange that you deem you need to be
practically a pauper compared to your former lifestyle.

[Jacob Lee]

MTY,

I'm all for the right to disagree, even forcefully if need be. heck, i was just recently in a rather lively debate that devolved down to rolexes and the shady streets of hong kong, so it'd be pot, kettle, and black for me to say anything otherwise.

however, my comment would be if you want to disagree, use a point of fact that can serve to objectify your position and either prove or disprove it, not just have it boil down to something like "almost impossible" or essentially a 'just because i don't believe it' kind of thing.

case in point - Dan stated he was on McClarens used return list or something to that effect. personally, i'd no idea they had one, but it sounds cool and very probable. i don't know the type of info they supply, but surely they'd have to give at least model year, color, etc. i happen to personally know, not well but sort of one of those friend of a friend thing, an individual who unfortunately and very tragically died just last month from cancer; liquidated from his estate very recently was two F1s. why not ask Dan to prove his bonafides with information that is not confidential but easily provable like this?

obviously, you may not be in a position to know anything about some F1s that just came on the market, but heck, you said it yourself about a pic of his cars. why not just ask for one before jumping to a conclusion that is difficult to back out of if you're wrong? personally, i don't think there's anything wrong to ridicule someone for making what turns out to be fraudulent statements. but the big catch is you ought to be darn sure you've gone through the question, allege, obtain proof, then ridicule. not just jump to the last step. he owes you nothing of course, and may not wish to reply with pics; doesn't mean he's lying - heck, just to be obstinate i might do the same. but who knows?

why would anyone want two of any type of car? two people as examples come to mind instantly - Jerry Seinfeld and MC Hammer. Two who made it big, and one who lost it.

both noted for extensive car collections, including buying dupes of highly desirable models. not just making this up - saw a Discovery Channel special not that long ago about the Hamptons and one episode had a clip about a Porsche gallery party, which Seinfeld attended and helped out by loaning a number of cars in his collection.

[chunpng]

Hi Dan,

Met you first time during our latest lunch fare and you are certainly a very head's up kind of guy, especially for your age. This is an intriguing thread and many members have shared their wisdom here. Here are my two cents.

THE CAR YOU DRIVE: Get a safe car, be it an M5 or others. It's not much fun being a quadraplegic with a 9 figures net worth.

HOW MUCH TO PUT INTO YOUR INVESTMENT: Ask yourself what is your ultimate goal. If you want sufficient money to get to a certain station in life and you will turn your attention to other gainful exploits, then it makes sense to get there ASAP. However, if your motivation is purely in pursuit of a bigger score, then I will put in a lot less. First, you can achieve a BIGGER score easier the next time. Second, the laws of averages will catch up with you eventually and you will still have some left if you fail. To me, money is the means to an end, such as security, free time, less stress, more toys, etc. If money is your END, period, then you are bound to loose eventually. Every old gambler will tell you that the only winners are the ones who can walk away while they are ahead. The trick is knowing when you are satisfied as to how far ahead you are.

A SURE THING: Many posts here have told you that there is no such thing as a sure thing. Reason being there are many factors beyond the merit of the scheme, which could dictate the outcome. Let me give you 2 real life examples: 18 months back, I personally invested significant (to me anyway) pre-IPO money in a company that has the sole contract on the Chinese fibre-optics network AND they have the best compression/encryption technology anywhere. An almost unbeatable combination when the net and broadband were the hottest thing around. Now, following the wane of internet, communications, and broadband trend, and the low appetite for IPO. God knows when this deal will come out. Second example, my best friend has a patent pending that will refine heavy crude into light crude. This is akin to turning lead into gold. However, now with crude oil prices down, and VC interest low, he is struggling for funding. My point is, the best laid plan may still go awry. I think conservatively myself.

TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING: Yes, we have very high achiving people in this country, and on this board, yet we rarely know all that they actually have achieved. The internet, accessible to hundreds of millions of people, may not be the best place to discuss plans of grandeur. There will always be doubters, flamers, and saboteurs. You need to be wise beyond your age to filter through and get the nuggets that you can use.

DELAYED GRATIFICATION: I'm all for it, at least once, so you can look back and see that it is no big deal to defer some of your wants and needs. It is very easy to love the finer things in life, a lot more difficult to judge when they are truly appropriate.

Think carefully before you act, don't do anything that you will regret later, and best of luck. We will count ourself lucky if we are in your predicament.

If you want to round up some wise locals to have some heart-to-heart chatter, there is always Cucina Cucina.

CP