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Tried to Trade the M5 for a Mini Cooper S... very long story, sorry...
Hey everyone, this is an experience that I hope never happens to any of you out there. Please read below, my wife wrote this and has submitted it to all of our local news channels and the attorney general.
If anyone has any suggestions or direction for us we would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance, Jason.
On Friday August 17, 2007 Jason Graham who is my husband met with Harris Ford who contacted him about his BMW M5 that he was selling on Auto Trader. An M5 is a rare high end specialty vehicle. We have been looking to sell it so that we can lower our payment each month. He looked at many cars that day and few were able to accommodate the negative equity that would come with the trade in. It was down to a Mini Cooper and a fully loaded SUV that we already have. After talking to me on the phone we felt that the Mini Cooper would suffice so he closed the deal. After bringing it home and driving the mini cooper some more we thought about it and decided that this was not a vehicle that would accommodate our needs in the future, especially when we have kids. The next morning, not 15 hours after purchasing the Mini Cooper we returned together to the dealership to attempt to just get the M5 back. I had never been to that dealership and immediately felt that it was not a customer oriented dealership. We talked to the Used Car Sales Manager that Jason had dealt with the day before and he brought us straight to the Finance Manager. He sat us down in his office and proceeded to tell us that we had "remorseitis" about the car and that he sees this all the time. He said it like we had some sort of a disease, and that we would eventually grow to like the vehicle we had chosen. He talked down to us, stating that it was not his problem that we had made a bad choice and that we had wasted his dealers/sales managers/finance managers time. (I sat there thinking to myself that if we had truly WASTED their time, why on earth are they in business? There are customers everyday across the ffice:smarttags" />US that deliberate for hours, even days before they choose a vehicle or not choose a vehicle.) He proceeded to tell us that we would get over it and that the lower payment would be good for us, and that the car (mini) would suit us well. We continued to tell him that the Mini Cooper is not going to work for us and that since the financing had not even gone through due to the weekend, we wanted our car back. (Being that the original deal had happened after "banking hours" on a Friday night, it was impossible for the dealer to submit a loan package for approval until Monday morning. The only parties involved at this point were us and the dealership. No financing had begun). He brought out the contract and said that there is no cooling off period for used car buyers and that the deal was done. I asked him what the options were and he said there were none unless possibly they could trade it out for another car on their lot. Jason asked why they could not just cancel the deal since technically it was not even done yet. He continued to say that a contract is a contract. Jason told him that we would just cancel our $3000 dollar check that we put down and he then began to threaten us saying that we don't want to go down that road with them, and that they would proceed to destroy our hard earned credit by sending us to collections. I was really upset so I left the office and went outside and Jason followed me. We immediately got on our phones and began to call everyone that we knew who could help.fficeffice" />
We called Bickford Ford located in Snohomish because we knew one of the Sales Representatives there. He had tried to help us a few months back in our situation and was unable to find a vehicle that would accommodate our reverse equity; he said that although there is no cooling off period, the dealership could easily drop the deal and let us have our car back. He said that is what they would do so that they could keep their reputation and do what is right for the customer, hoping for future business. Several other dealerships were contacted, given the situation that we were in and every single one of them agreed with the viewpoint that the Bickford Ford dealership had mentioned. His exact words were "We would never dream of holding customer/potential customers feet to the fire over a single car deal." At no point during the 45 minutes that we were outside on our phones did anyone come out to talk to us.
They were not backing down and refused to let us talk to the General Manager stating that he did not want to talk to us and that the deal is done and that is the way that it is. We had been there a better part of the afternoon and still they were not willing to do anything so it was either buy our car back or we could look at other cars on the lot. Keeping in mind that Jason had done this the previous day. I could not believe that they were actually going to make us buy our car back so I decided that we could look at some other cars. Due to our negative equity they were limiting us to a certain few cars. After spending two hours looking for cars, none we had chosen would work "numbers wise" for the dealer. I no longer wanted to do anymore business with these people. We went back sales manager and told them that we wanted our car back and the $3000 that we had put down. He said that he would work up the deal for our car(M5) and that our payments would be slightly higher than before. He then had the nerve to tell me that the $3000 was on the other car deal and it was done, and we could not get it back. I asked him how he sleeps at night and he said just fine. I then said that I could not believe that they were making us buy our car back. He said that he was not making us do anything and that if I kept it up he didn't have to do anything for us and we could drive home in the Mini Cooper. I went outside because I was hysterical at that point. I could not believe that we had actually gotten to the point of buying our own car back for more than we owed before. The most shocking part was that the deal was not even finalized yet for the Mini Cooper and they had not found a lender to even take our deal in the first place and they wouldn't let it go. He actually said that he had wasted 6 hours with my husband the day prior and that he doesn't work for free. I am a Store Manager for Starbucks and I would never treat or speak to a customer that way. My husband is a mortgage broker and he spends hours, days and sometimes weeks on deals that eventually fall through and that is just the nature of the job, and he would never dream of treating a customer that way either.
Ultimately the dealership bought the mini cooper back from us for $1,000 less that what we had paid, and re-sold us our BMW M5 for $1,000 more that they gave us on its initial trade in. That $2,000 dollars coupled with the $3,000 check we wrote to make the original deal work puts us out $5,000 plus licensing fees. My husband asked them why they were taking another $1,000 off each vehicle, and the sales manager said that no matter the condition of the vehicle they are legally bound to run the car through a 125 point safety inspection. He said the average cost for them to do that is $1,000 per car. My husband turned and walked away. Finally they structured the financing deal for us to re-purchase out BMW M5, and my husband sat down to sign while I waited in the car. I did not want to be near them anymore. While my husband was signing, the finance manager who accused us of "remorseitis" mentioned to my husband that "your wife is really composed given the situation" My husband continued to sign and the finance manager went on to say that this has happened before and people have thrown pens and papers at him, swore at the top of their lungs at him and so on. My husband said to him :maybe if you did what was right for your customers and acted with some integrity it would not happen so much" The finance manager then proceeded to give my husband a document that stated the BMW M5 was sold as is and there was no warranty. My husband had asked for the documentation that the car had gone through service and the finance manager said the car had not had a chance to go through service since we were well short of 24 hours that they had possession of the M5, which means that the $1,000 per car to run through service apparently did not apply to my car (M5) since it had not been done. Harris Ford had done no inspection to the BMW and therefore could not guarantee that the car was defect free, not too sure but this sounds like a legal matter should my brakes fail and I kill someone on the road.
Ultimately the Pierre Group and Harris Ford proved to me and my husband yesterday that they only care about moving inventory and a sale as opposed to good customer service. We will never be associated with them in the future, and we will continue to tell our story to our friends, family and their friends and so on so that this never happens to anyone out there.
Please contact us for more details if you are at all interested in our story. Apparently there is a buyers remorse period in WashingtonState that is 72 hours long in ANY binding contract. This was completely ignored by the dealer. At this moment we are seeking advice from the attorney general of the state of tate w:st="on">Washingtontate>, and other legal advice.
I would do some serious investigation of the consumer protection laws in Washington State. Some states have consumer protection laws that would entitle you to a cause of action in this situation and, in addition, some states would allow recovery of your attorney's fees if you were sucessful. However, I am not sure if this applies to Washington State's Consumer Protection statute or not. I am not a licensed attorney in Washington State. Check here: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=19.86 and talk to these people here: http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=1792.
That's total BS , I hope you bend them over the table on this one cuz that can't hold water... G/L keep us posted.. BTW what were you thinking with Mini ???
I'm torn on this matter. I'm a manager at a car dealership, and although I hate situations like this, they happen. I've taken cars back because they didn't have seat heaters (kills the dealership $$$ wise), and I have also kept people on the road with what they purchased.
The lesson learned is that you always need to make educated purchases, and realize that is isn't up to dealers to cover up your mistakes. They have the choice to accomodate you or not, but since there is no cooling off period, there is no reason why they have to be. Chances are they were looking to make a lot of money on your M5, and didn't want to give it up.
Finally, don't expect the people you deal with in the dealership to have a working moral compass. The GSM generally doesn't have one, wont talk to customers, and forces everyone else you interact with to get his way. The people you work with in the dealership are looking to get you out of their hair as fast as possible, as they would rather not be dealing with it.
As sad as it is, all you are to a big compant is a number, and a certain amount of money. Your actions make them money, and they almost never want to part with it. Some dealers will help you out, but 90% of them wont.
I agree with you 100%. Even though you signed the contract, the dealership should've cancelled the agreement. Working in the Car finance industry, I do know that dealerships would send contracts to at least 5 different financial companies & would wait for an approval. Sometimes, it would take a couple days for an answer & once that occurs sometimes the dealer would tack on extra - either $$$ or higher the percentage rate for gain (Stealership - Go figure). Hopefully you spead the word around your area, so this doesn't happen to anyone else. Good luck!
One side remark, when I was still selling cars for a living, I always made sure that people were 100% certain about a car before closing the deal. For a dealership, there's nothing as bad as people getting into arguements and taking cars back that were already sold.
On the other hand, some things in your post do bug me:
Quote:
His exact words were "We would never dream of holding customer/potential customers feet to the fire over a single car deal."
This is always easy to say for a third party, have experienced this many many times before. Whenever I had sold a car, people would go somewhere else for g%d knows what and they return saying that they got too little trade-in for their car since the other dealership wanted to give more ( note, this is on a 2nd hand car so no straight comparison for any dealer to another!!)
Quote:
At no point during the 45 minutes that we were outside on our phones did anyone come out to talk to us.
Why would a salesperson walk up onto someone that is on the phone for 45 minutes?
Also, I always applied and teached the rule that the dealing salesperson is the one that stays with the customer, not the manager, not any other seller, nobody. Unless the customer requests.
Don't forget about filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, it's all done online. I'm filing one for the mechanic who forgot to tighten all of the five bolts on my rear wheel resulting in a bent rim and new tire.
good luck with this, there's nothing I hate more than sleazebags like this. If we were in Europe I'd have popped my mechanic in the mouth and your friends at Ford. Here everybody hides behind lawyers, so unfortunately, you have to go through the same process when something bad like this happens.
Just to give you an idea of the nerve of people (as if you don't already know), when I asked my mechanic what he would have done if my wheel flew off on the highway and caused an accident, he said "Nothing, it would have made for an interesting water cooler conversation".....anyways good luck
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Dinan CAI
Steel Braided Brake Lines
Mark III Computer
Thanks 4 the responses thus far. I have done some reading on the laws and unfortunately they are all in support of the STEALERSHIP. LOL go f*&king figure eh? Gotta love America at times.
At any rate, on Monday AM I will be calling my bank (credit union acutally BECU for those that know them) and telling them my story. At which point I will request they decline giving any financial institution any information on any account/loan that I hold with them. I will simply ask them to refuse giving a payoff for my original M5 loan to any party. If the dealership cannot get this information for their lender then the deal cannot be done, hence the terms of the original contract are void, and the can go get F(*&ed!!! I may even tell my bank that I was chorersed (sp?) by the dealer to sigh a release to get a payoff for the M5...
The though crossed my mind to call my bank and also report to them fraud? Let them know that someone is trying to get into my accounts and that they should deny anything asked of them regarding my accounts and loans? A
I'm torn on this matter. I'm a manager at a car dealership, and although I hate situations like this, they happen. I've taken cars back because they didn't have seat heaters (kills the dealership $$$ wise), and I have also kept people on the road with what they purchased.
The lesson learned is that you always need to make educated purchases, and realize that is isn't up to dealers to cover up your mistakes. They have the choice to accomodate you or not, but since there is no cooling off period, there is no reason why they have to be. Chances are they were looking to make a lot of money on your M5, and didn't want to give it up.
Finally, don't expect the people you deal with in the dealership to have a working moral compass. The GSM generally doesn't have one, wont talk to customers, and forces everyone else you interact with to get his way. The people you work with in the dealership are looking to get you out of their hair as fast as possible, as they would rather not be dealing with it.
As sad as it is, all you are to a big compant is a number, and a certain amount of money. Your actions make them money, and they almost never want to part with it. Some dealers will help you out, but 90% of them wont.
I worked for a major Los Angeles BMW/Porsche/Audi/VW dealer a few years back (I was with the BMW guys/gals) ... and, unfortunately, I have to agree with Bren ... Sad but all true, in my experience.
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"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge."
Tried to Trade the M5 for a Mini Cooper S... very long story, sorry...
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