Off Topic ForumThis is the place for mature discussions not necessarily related to cars. This is however also moderated and only registered members are allowed to post. No religion and no vicious attacks.
From the IIHS:
"Side impacts are the second most common fatal crash type after frontal crashes. About 9,200 people in passenger vehicles were killed in side impacts in 2005. In crashes with other passenger vehicles during 2004-05, 49 percent of driver deaths in 1-3-year-old cars and minivans occurred in side impacts, up from 31 percent in 1980-81. During the same time, the proportion of driver deaths in frontal crashes declined from 61 to 46 percent."
I am not insulted by some of the responses, just a little surprised. I just can't believe that some people are blowing off a crash test that BMW should have passed with flying colors. It's a far cry from from what the IIHS said in 1997 about the frontal test. Here's a quote my post in 2004:
"When the 1997 E39 5 Series was offset crash tested, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety President Brian O'Neill said that if all cars crashed like the BMW 5 series, they could shut down their testing. Remember, the IIHS is privately funded by insurance companies. The US Government testing done by NHTSA utilizes the full frontal crashes which are not as "real world" as the IIHS offset tests."
Here is the 2004 thread which raises questions about the EURO test also:
The IIHS tests are the BEST thing to happen to auto safety. The institute which is funded by the insurance industry to reduce costs has effectively EMBARRASSED cars companies to make safer cars. The insurance companies pay out less in claims and fewer people die or are maimed. We all win.
I would like to see the IIHS crash a 2004-2007 model to see if the test is the same, since we have no base-line test for the 5 series in a side impact crash. This would show if the design was never good or the 2008 interior door panel redesign is solely the culprit.
Some of the above responses to my original post still don't change my belief that BMW should have ranked in the top tier in this test. THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL INTENT I WAS TRYING TO CONVEY. I was emotionally torqued that something that I thought was a "given" proved not to be. Mattel, the largest toy company in the world, just let parents and kids down with magnets that fall out of Polly Pocket toys and lead paint on some Sesame Street Toys. BMW has also let us down because our expectations are high and we thought a high mark on this test was fundamental for a BMW.
My 2008 M5 order was placed thinking I had the best possible cocoon surrounding me and my family in an unparalleled performance sedan. BMW let me down with last week's results. I still don't take that lightly and you shouldn't either.
'06 M5 Silver Grey
MJ---I think that we were all disappointed by the test results. We love the M5 and know that it's the best performance sedan out there (BTW, "cocoon" and "performance" should not belong in the same sentence--IMHO). I'm a big BMW fan as well, but I know that although the M5 is probably agile enough to get me out of just about any situation, no car can get you out the "perfect" crash. That's what these tests demonstrate. If you really want a super safe performance car, I'd get the Volvo or Acura and mod the heck out of them. Or, just keep your M5
Since I'm a mod here, I felt the need to ask posting advice from a non-mod.
Here's what I got:
Hmmm, ok, MJ, you posted a thread and won't acknowledge responses from those trying to help, especially if those responses don't jive with your predisposition.
Are you hoping to extract some type of retribution against BMW (as in hey, members, dump your M5s, they're not crashworthy)?
But your pedisposition prompts this question -- why the the post in the first place?
This is something you've yet to acknowledge. I undertstand perfectly those who want only yes-men in response to their questions, but since that hasn't occurred, (and yes, we've seen your response to date) how will you continue to respond?
Should you acquiesce to other posters and acquire a 10 ton battle tank?
Why did you post? What were you expecting here? Should we all just shut up and coddle? Recent efforts to help you have gone unanswered.
Lastly, are the odds approximately 1000 to 1 that you won't respond to any of this?
If you agree with no one here, and/or if no one can help you here, why post at all?
The bottom line is that if you're that disturbed, buy something and post photos of your purchase. Simple, really.
That's not to say that everyone's crying towels are in the washing machine, I'm sure that there are a few available for lending. Oops, did any of this hurt your feelings?
Ok, now, as a mod, I must say that that response is quite harsh, no matter how realistic. The thought that anyone here can't handle life in general is simply abhoric (is that a word?). I'm sure that MJ will respond (in a non-hostile, courteous fashion, of course) quite soon, at any rate.
WOW....What a turn this thread has taken. I also thought that most readers would be more interested in the safety of these machines. I remember when I was back in school, almost ten years ago now, my sister and mother were involved in a side impact crash. The crash involved was her then '88 325is and like a 1985 Ford F150. The car was totaled, but my mother who was on the passenger side, also the side that was hit, walked away just a little shaken. The car performed wonderfully!! That was the day that I said when I get out of school I wanted a BMW. After school, I found out just how safe these cars were by reading all about the test and so on. I know that you can't really pay for safety but I think that once again that some heads need to roll on this issue at BMW. Enough excuses, just fix the issue, redesign, do whatever is necessary. You never know what can happen, or whose fault it may be but I think that with the knowledge that we have, we should use it for our and our family's safety. Maybe if more of us canceled our upcoming orders or traded in there would be more urgency to take some action. Simply unbelievable! IMHO It seems that looking into the issue and a cabin redesign could fix this rather quickly.
This has always been a civilized board with a clientele a cut above other message boards. When did this change?
One main reason I read here but rarely post. My impression is that this is not a forum where people discuss cars in a civil manner, like the E39 forum I started with in 2001. Yes, 2001.
The E60 Forum has many cult-like members who think anyone who does not appreciate/own an SMG-equipped E60 is mentally retarded in all things auto, and will not hesitate to 'educate' the uninitiated with tough-love messages.
I have owned BMWs since 1985. The E39 M5 was my last BMW. I will NEVER buy a new BMW again, especially an E60 M5. Way before this IIHS crash story came about (late last week I think), I have decided that the new BMWs are inferior cars. Not that it makes much difference to forum members here, but the E60 M5 came in third in a 3-sedan comparo, loosing to Audi and MB. Yet one post on this thread mentioned 'hundreds of rave reviews for the M5'. The blinders-on mentality here is stunning.
The humiliation is not reserved only for the M5, the regular E60 5 series lost twice to the Infiniti M. I cannot recall the last time this happened.
Unfortunately, I must agree with MJ and chunpng--people do not seem to discuss the issues raised here in a civil manner (there are, of course exceptions, and thank you to those respectful, thoughtful posters).
I thought I would offer my .02, for whatever it is worth. As I have said in previous posts, I have been a very loyal BMW customer. As we all know, BMW charges a premium for their vehicles, the e60 m5, included. With the incentives offered by MB for the e63, the pricing of the Audi S6, etc., there are other more "economical" alternatives out there. While I can not speak for everyone, I can only speak for myself and one of the reasons I have purchased BMW's is because of their engineering--not only in terms of performance, but the technology that works when we don't know it, especially in terms of safety and crash protection. I opted for the e60 initially because I wanted performance and practicality--I needed a four door to take my boys around in, but I wanted the performance of my Z8. Now, I have had several reliability issues with my e60 that resulted in me no longer having the vehicle (I will not bore you with the details). So, in contemplating a successor, I was considering another m5, possibly a 550 sport (just for fuel economy), and no matter what I chose, I was going to stay within the BMW family. However, with the latest test results and BMW's somewhat dismissive response to it, the e60 is no longer an option for me. I understand everyone's point regarding the "perfect crash", how we should just enjoy driving, etc., but, when it comes down to it, I expect certain things for the premiums we pay. Next to Porsche, BMW has the highest profit margin of any other manufacturer for its vehicles. Its dealers acknowledge that its cars are too expensive to compete effectively in certain segments (most recently the new x5 prior to offering incentives). Such a premium must be justified in the consumers' eyes. For some, performance is enough. For others, including myself, it is not. Imho I do not think it is acceptable that a car as highly engineered as the e60 should perform so poorly in a test that has been given so much attention over the last few years. Interestingly BMW is dismissing it now, but when it was publicized that the e39 performed so well, BMW beat the safety drum as loudly as anyone. Maybe there is a slim chance of being in such an accident where this shortcoming in terms of protection would be realized, but I am not willing to take that chance with my family and friends and, just because others feel the same, does not mean they deserve the responses they have received, particularly from moderators.
I am so disturbed by the side impact debacle, I am seriously considering walking away from my week 36 build Space Grey M5. After FIVE M5s I truly feel let down. I never thought I had to worry about a last place crash test. I just thought the German engineers had my back. Or in this case my ribs and internal organs.
If I were to walk away from the 2008 on order what should I consider? I am truly looking for input as this has seriously rattled my confidence...
Poor safety (there is just no excuse for the 5series results, because they are excuses as excellent safety should be acquired easily in these modern times and all other car manufacturers have) and quality were the 2 (HUGE) main reasons I bought a Mercedes E55 AMG after 4 BMW's. I have to admit it will be hard going back after the positive experience I have had with this car. I thought I would have never bought a Merc over a BMW. I also have to add that the BMW service stations here in Finland are so appalling in quality that owning an unreliable car would be hell.
I am still waiting to get a few suggestions for a possible replacement for the E60. I want a four door monster with the drivability that I desire and I am afraid the M5 might be one of the few that meets the demand.
Any comments on the RS4????
try your best not to get into a side impact situation. But if you must, go for a Merc. E63 AMG. This was second on my list, but it's just not as athletic or spirited as the M5. It a beast, but the E class common design just didn't do it for me.