Off Topic ForumThis is the place for mature discussions not necessarily related to cars. This is however also moderated and only registered members are allowed to post. No religion and no vicious attacks.
Jahangeer: In all due respect, the BMW sentence used the word "AUTONOMY" best described meaning of the word autonomy is, self governing, or self determining, if I am not mistaken BMW is a privetely owned Company, different than that of almost all car manufactures. BMW answers to themselves, NOT to a board of governing officers, directors, stock holders etc. THEY make their own determinations. The process of governing decision making is handled in a more expeditious way. Less red tape, less bureaucracy, and we all know how that works.
ah yes, funny how one can misinterpret somedays. cheers for pointing that out.
One main reason I read here but rarely post. My impression is that this is not a forum where people discuss cars in a civil manner, like the E39 forum I started with in 2001. Yes, 2001.
The E60 Forum has many cult-like members who think anyone who does not appreciate/own an SMG-equipped E60 is mentally retarded in all things auto, and will not hesitate to 'educate' the uninitiated with tough-love messages.
I have owned BMWs since 1985. The E39 M5 was my last BMW. I will NEVER buy a new BMW again, especially an E60 M5. Way before this IIHS crash story came about (late last week I think), I have decided that the new BMWs are inferior cars. Not that it makes much difference to forum members here, but the E60 M5 came in third in a 3-sedan comparo, loosing to Audi and MB. Yet one post on this thread mentioned 'hundreds of rave reviews for the M5'. The blinders-on mentality here is stunning.
The humiliation is not reserved only for the M5, the regular E60 5 series lost twice to the Infiniti M. I cannot recall the last time this happened.
CP
Honestly CP,
That's why I rarely post here anymore. Back in the day, this place was quite special with many long standing friendships forged over the mutual passion for BMWs. Now, with all the newcomers, it ain't personal anymore and not quite different than roadfly messageboard.
I, too, have a tremendous respect for MJ, given my personal experience with his posts throughout the years. And for some newbie "mod" to question his intent with out of place sarcasm makes me not want to interact as freely anymore
I would caution people from making the assumption that the tests used an "incorrect" seating position, or that there is a "correct" one. The tests results indicated the head was protected, but that the torso made contact with the armrest (2008 model).
My experience has been people do not fare well when making head contact with the "B" pillar and I'd hate to see anyone read this and think they'll be better off shifting the seat back. Internal injuries are nothing to sneeze at, but I'd take that over a lights-out shot to the head any day.
The original poster had a valid concern for his family's safety and I respect that. As many other's have said, this is a laboratory test. A necessary and useful, yet imperfect science. Real world accidents are almost impossible to duplicate. Hypothetically, you could shift all the seat positions by an inch or two, change the angle of impact by a degree or two, adjust the speed by a mph or two, and all of a sudden you may find BMW in first place - apples to apples.
And to answer the original question, if you truly want a replacement for the 5, the one with the most mass usually wins. Best wishes to you with your decision. I personally believe in the BMW product and feel safe putting my family in my E60 M5.
And to answer the original question, if you truly want a replacement for the 5, the one with the most mass usually wins. Best wishes to you with your decision. .
"Mass" like "might" is good, but height is also good as it raises passengers bodies above the centre of impact.
But neither mass nor height is good for active safety - that is avoiding the collision in the first place, and a tall heavy vehicle is never going to be fun to drive or economical.
We have talked to Wayward and he understand that some of his comments where not diplomatic or even correct, and ven more so if you are a moderator. But being a moderator or administrator does not change how you are or behave autmatically, but sometimes you should as a moderator or admin refrain from some comments that might have been OK to post as a member.
I apologize if anyone have felt mistreated for anyones comments, buit wherever this have happend the matter have been adressed and dealt with. If that is not hte case please PM or email med and I will deal with it.
I do also beleive that this thread have been somewhat inline and I was very glad to see BMW NA respond to this which just is great customer service and shows that they really care.
For the record I have met many friends all over the forum, M5 E60 forum, M6 and Alpina forum and I do not agree at all that it is a Roadfly type of posts. If it is, pelase inform me where and I can correct it.
Also, I have met MJ and also enjoyed his posts alot and I think it is great he got a straight reply from BMW NA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezf
Honestly CP,
That's why I rarely post here anymore. Back in the day, this place was quite special with many long standing friendships forged over the mutual passion for BMWs. Now, with all the newcomers, it ain't personal anymore and not quite different than roadfly messageboard.
I, too, have a tremendous respect for MJ, given my personal experience with his posts throughout the years. And for some newbie "mod" to question his intent with out of place sarcasm makes me not want to interact as freely anymore
I, too, have a tremendous respect for MJ, given my personal experience with his posts throughout the years. And for some newbie "mod" to question his intent with out of place sarcasm makes me not want to interact as freely anymore
"Mass" like "might" is good, but height is also good as it raises passengers bodies above the centre of impact.
But neither mass nor height is good for active safety - that is avoiding the collision in the first place, and a tall heavy vehicle is never going to be fun to drive or economical.
Agree with you 100%. I prefer to stand a better chance of avoiding the accident over standing a better chance of surviving one. But we all make our own decisions.
I'm sorry if I seem to be rude asking this question in the middle of a discussion:
Where is MJ?? He hasn't replied the last pages... I wonder if you scared him off the board. :P
Or perhaps he has spoken his piece on this topic (we are all very aware of his position) and doesn't feel the need to repeat himself with the same information over and over again like some other posters have a tendency to do on these types of forums.
Back on topic -- Even though the seat position was standardized, if BMW runs these tests with more "realistic" positioning of their crash test dummies on their own tests, then I care much more about the results of those than the results of this single test.
![Buh Bye BMW? 2008 M5 Order Canceled. [Safety concerns after IIHS test results]](http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/iconimages/off-topic-forum/buh-bye-bmw-2008-m5-order-canceled-safety-concerns-after-iihs-test-results_ltr.gif)
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