Off Topic ForumThis is the place for mature discussions not necessarily related to cars. This is however also moderated and only registered members are allowed to post. No religion and no vicious attacks.
For the record I will never turn to any manufacturer but BMW. I'm 21 and I had an E36 318i when I was 16. I've owned 95 purple m3 coupe, 98 m3 4door sedan, 97 540i 6spd, an E53 x5. I come from a strong family of BMW owners, and am honestly not allowed to drive anything else. I am (for the short time span) somewhat experienced with BMWs. What I do know is that I almost lost my brother in a fatal e36 328is accident. I was surprised to see him walk away with scratches (which really convinced me). If you guys have really read my posts, all I am saying is that I have faith in BMW resolving this issue. Now that I have a daughter certain features do become more important than some. I will not leave BMW. Just disappointed.
Let me give 2 situations. (Just trying to let the crew see my point of view)
Crossing through an intersection, when an idiot decides to take the light blazing 70 and smacks the passenger side. Your E60 gets canned, total write off. Everyone lives (kids, friends, and wife). Everyone brags about BMW safety. Insurance cuts a check, and you hop into another E60 M5. Life is good!
Crossing through an intersection, when an idiot decides to take the light blazing 70 and smacks the passenger side. Your E60 gets canned, total write off. Wife and kids die your friend is now brain damaged and paralyzed from the waist down. (This is where I get confused at) Insurance cuts a check and you hop into another E60 M5.
What does one say about the safety of BMW after this? Which one would you prefer after a fatal accident, situation 1 or 2? Or do we still factor in performance and drive more aware next time? Can “All the money in the world buy” back your family???
And for the record for people saying there are many other things that can happen to you to end your life other than car accidents. That is a probability game i would not want to play with the rest of my family in the car. Aside from serious diseases and health conditions, automotive accidents are the largest killer of people in this country. We dont always have control over a situation like a car accident, so why not prepare yourself to a good level(that bmw has been known for). Of course there is the balancing act of the many pluses and minuses of the car, but traditionally, was safety something people had to weigh out on a bmw?(On retrospect that was a bad idea, no matter the make, but is it wrong to give bmw credit in the safety department?) It sure wasnt when we bought any of our bmw's, and thats the point. We had a 01 e38 740il and it got hit(from the back) at a rolling crawl speed by another car going roughly 50 miles per hour according to the police report. My brother, his wife and my mom were all in the car and they walked out with sore necks. The other car's engine needed a separate tow truck. The car was brand new and it had a decent amount of sub-frame damage, came out to roughly 23k in repairs. We didnt look up the safety ratings of that car before we bought it, but had some faith in bmw, and why shouldnt we have? When i company you trust your family's life with gives you a reason to question them, it is as TopEnd said, disappointing. Bmw needs to fix this even if some of its customers dont care about it. Its likely not good enough for bmw to say that its drivers are of a different breed, and wont be discouraged by simply safety results...At least for brand image,lol.
Initially i thought the seating position was very odd in the test car, which i still believe. However, as another poster pointed out, other cars have the same seating position. So in a sense, all things being equal the e60 performed worse than its same class competitors. Or, short and oddly shaped people shouldnt drive e60's?
Maybe you feel its your time to go when god decides. But when i have a family of my own, rest assured ill do anything short of sitting god right back down in his chair before he "decides" its time for my family to go. I doubt by that time bmw will have problems like this; i have faith that they will do their due diligence in the matter.
Sorry if that came out as a rant...
Edit: in case anyone is wondering about how many bmw's me and my family have had experience with, heres the list.
Sorry, but by todays standads 4 stars is a really bad result and the 4 stars came after a recrash. The first 5-series NCAP result was 3 stars, which is HORRIBLE! All other major cars manufacturers get five stars easily (even a Toyota Yaris got 5 stars!).
Welcome Claus Nice 1st. post. I have to ask though, who is the original....you or Unfoundhorsepower?
Oha, I forgot that "Santa Claus" is the man with "Unfoundhorsepower" ( ) in the English speaking areas!
"Claus" (or "Klaus") is a common surname in Germany with no direct relation to the "four-legs-horsepower-man". On the other hand it's an abbreviation from "Nikolaus" (we celebrate it on Dec. 6) and the small brother from the "Weihnachtsmann" (in English also Santa Claus - we celebrate it on Dec. 24). In English both men are the same, I assume.
Claus (distance to "Nürburgring" only approx. 60 miles )
Wow! I had some catching up to do on this thread since I've been away for a week and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
First some background. I've bought 4 BMWs since '98 and nothing else. Why? Because I HAD researched safety and felt that BMW provided excellent safety along with the performance and luxury. All of the crash test data and "I walked away" stories of the E39 validated the safety aspect of my purchase decisions of the 540i and 2002 M5.
I was concerned when BMW switched to aluminum front ends on the E60 & E63. Frontal crash test results alleviated my fears and allowed me to feel good with the 650i purchase. I only hope I don't get into a minor accident that requires a complete front rebuild
I had noticed the poor rear crash test result of the E60. When reading the details, it seems the IIHS puts the headrest in the lowest most rearward position. They say its because Americans are dumb and don't properly adjust headrests. Thats why BMW gets a poor result with the headrest geometry alone and why comfort seats do better, and why any car with a super tall fixed headrest (eg Volvo) does well in the test.
I for one DID have a rear impact crash in the E39 M5. It wasn't hit that hard but I suffered absolutely NO issues from receiving a pretty solid THUMP from behind.
The EUROCAP poor pedestrian result is because the low front of the E60 bounces them over the hood instead of knocking them down and running over them. Is that really better?
So that brings us to the present and the release of the IIHS side impact test. It happens to coincide with me looking to purchase an '08 550 or M5. Here are my thoughts.
1. I am suprised and concerned with the result.
2. I am more suprised and concerned with BMWs initial comments of "we aren't concerned, it was one test on one day"
3. BMW ought to be concerned. This will KILL their whole reputation, not just 5er sales. I hope and suspect they will do a redesign of something (maybe a larger side airbag) and ask for a retest.
4. It is intersting timing with HaroldC's horrendous side impact accident that he is recovering from. I would say the E60 seems pretty solid and safe from that example.
5. I do agree that the seating position was odd in the IIHS test, that the 5er seemed to stay stationary and take a larger impact than the others, etc. I can't explain this, maybe Kia paid IIHS to tie down the BMW to make it fare worse. However, bottom line? I am glad I'm 6 ft tall and sit further back but since accidents and people sizes are random, BMW should design the car to deal with any size driver, any side impact situation, and not have significant issues with certain positions (assuming they are proper for a given sized driver), etc.
6. All of that being said, I'd still feel MUCH safer in a BMW than a KIA in ANY accident situation. Besides, the way they drive sucks compared to a BMW and I wouldn't own one anyways.
This situation will not steer me away from BMW but it does require pause for thought to see what BMW does. So far, it looks like they hope it was just go away and be forgotten..
PS: MJ, I understand your concern but I don't consider the one IIHS test to be a deal breaker at this time.
Richard NEW 2008 550i Space Gray, Creme Biege/Black/Dk Poplar : Sport Package, Cold Weather, Sport Auto, Nav, HUD, CA, Logic 7, iPod/USB, SAT, HD Radio, Lane departure warning
'06 X3 Black Sapphire/Tan PP, Steptronic, Xexons, Heated seats, Privacy glass, UGDO, Compass, bike rack, iPod adapter
Sold '06 650i Black Sapphire/Cream Beige sport package, 6 speed
'02 M5 Titanium Silver/Black Luxury/Burl
Last edited by Richard in NC; 25th August 2007 at 20:07.