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Old 27th December 2001, 02:47   #11
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Re: OT: 5 fastest production cars in test

Is this because the downforce gets so high that the centripetal forces get neglegtible small? Or the forces that pushes the car forward?

Also, I remember that you don't have to steer anything at above some speeds at oval tracks. Why is this? Can someone please enlighten me?


Quote:
Originally posted by B8 Guru
They test the cars at the Italian high speed track Nardo (where you don't have any centrifugal force on the car when doing 240km/h).
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Old 27th December 2001, 03:00   #12
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Re: Re: OT: 5 fastest production cars in test

Quote:
Originally posted by Gustav
Is this because the downforce gets so high that the centripetal forces get neglegtible small? Or the forces that pushes the car forward?

Also, I remember that you don't have to steer anything at above some speeds at oval tracks. Why is this? Can someone please enlighten me?


Aren't you the one taking the M Sc in mechanical engineering?
I majored in ComSc don't expext me to explain why!

On oval tracks the corners are banked the banking and to some extent dowforce will produce enough forces to make the car take the corner without the driver using the steering wheel.


Cheers,
/Johan

Last edited by johann; 27th December 2001 at 04:05.
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Old 27th December 2001, 03:06   #13
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Re: Re: Re: OT: 5 fastest production cars in test

I see.

Yes, of course they are banked. So depending how much you "bank" them you can affect the speed when you don't take into account the centripetal forces. Cool. We should build a bmwm5.com banked top speed oval

Quote:
Originally posted by johann

On oval tracks the corners are banked the banking and to some extent dowforce will produce enough forces to make the car take the corner without the driver using the steering wheel.


Cheers,
/Johan
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Old 27th December 2001, 03:15   #14
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Re: Re: OT: 5 fastest production cars in test

Quote:
Originally posted by Gustav
Is this because the downforce gets so high that the centripetal forces get neglegtible small? Or the forces that pushes the car forward?

Also, I remember that you don't have to steer anything at above some speeds at oval tracks. Why is this? Can someone please enlighten me?


Luckily, I've managed to pay attention in my Mech Eng BSc classes...

Centripetal forces are the frictional forces that work sideways on a car's tires to keep it travelling in a curve. They The centripetal forces are the exact opposite of the centrifugal forces working on a car (if they arent...the car is sliding out of the corner) and therefore relative to the G-force generated by the car through a corner.

Not having to steer has to do with the banking on the oval track introducing an angle to the gravitational and frictional components. For a car with a given mass and G-force capabilities, on a banked corner there will be a status quo of all forces at a given combination of speed & corner radius, resulting in the lack of steering input Gustav mentions.

Ah yes, now for downforce. The downforce created by a car's shape doesnt really effect this equation directly...however downforce impacts the frictional forces (which are related to the pressure exerted by the car on the underlying road surface, so less downforce signifies less pressure on the road), which in turn impact the centriputal forces.

Downforce is however usually measured while the car is travelling directly into the air stream(so in a straight line) and with some car designs the downforce created at a certain speed may significantly DECREASE when the car is travelling at a slight angle to the air stream (for example in a corner or with a crosswind). Typical examples of this are venturi designs (for example Nissan Skyline) or just plain bad aerodynamic designs (for example Ford Sierra).

Last edited by kees; 27th December 2001 at 03:24.
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Old 27th December 2001, 03:15   #15
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Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: 5 fastest production cars in test

Quote:
Originally posted by Gustav
Cool. We should build a bmwm5.com banked top speed oval
Who needs an oval?

Cheers,
/Johan
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Old 27th December 2001, 03:22   #16
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Thanks guys! Well, what if I had paid so much attention to my Mechanics part II Dynamics I may haven't got around doing the site Anyway, it's passed and over with!

I checked out this site for a good explanation of centripetal forces (nice ShockWave animation), quite basic:

http://www.nvc.stockholm.se/NVC-file...ve/central.htm

Last edited by Gustav; 27th December 2001 at 03:29.
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Old 27th December 2001, 03:28   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gustav
I checked out this site for a good explanation of centripetal and centrifugal forces (nice ShockWave animation):

http://www.nvc.stockholm.se/NVC-file...ve/central.htm
"Cirkulär rörelse

Undersök hur hastighet, acceleration och centripetalkraft beror av massa, radie och frekvens.
Vilket samband finns mellan period och frekvens?"


Ah yes, it all suddenly makes so much more sense now...

Gustav, maybe you could provide a brief translation? (Not using Altavista's extremly vague translation engine)
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Old 27th December 2001, 03:30   #18
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Oh, didn't think of that. Anyway, nice animation!
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Old 27th December 2001, 04:14   #19
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Actually only the Ferrari was uncomfortable at those speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by greg
I wonder how uncomfortable that thing felt at those speeds?
Actually AMS (which is the most well respected magazine in Germany and 100% respected by all German automakers) found out that all cars were absolutely stable at the measured topspeeds (which was measured using GPS based equipment) apart from the Ferrari 550 Maranello which became light on the front wheels at the achieved top speed...

And the Mercedes is the most luxurious car of the bunch with the least amount of wind noise too...

Mercedes has really created a unique car here!

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Old 27th December 2001, 04:17   #20
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Re: Actually only the Ferrari was uncomfortable at those speeds

Quote:
Originally posted by B8 Guru
Mercedes has really created a unique car here!
Can't wait to see a Super test in Sport Auto including Nordschleife and Hockenheim tests.

Cheers,
/Johan
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