Originally posted by Apples Not at all Jim the Turbo suits the whole Porsche image...l would like one.....no room
I just don't quite understand why MB...or even worse AMG refuse to tune their cars to a higher level before they ram some air in.
I would think that if AMG could claim to be a great tuner as many people believe they are, then shouldn't they be able to find at least 400+hp in the AMG 55 engine????. I've been told that it's all in the make up of the engine, they just don't have the HP per liter potential as some other makes that find 80+hp
By no means does that make them week, it's just that the engines have to be large or forced to get some decent numbers.
I've driven a friends CLK 55 and was impressed by the ease of it's power.....torque
Having a high HP per liter won't make a great car, there are many other points to be taken into account for it to be considered a class act.
By the way thats one nice garage you've got:eek
Hi Apples,
First of all, I would submit that a turbo-charger fits the Porsche image only because they have been doing it for some time. Mercedes has recently supercharged two different SLKs (the first NOT an AMG model) and a C-class, but Mercedes has been using Superchargers in production convertibles since the 1920's (remember the SSK) !!!!! In this sense, I think that a supercharger, especially in an open-top model, suits the whole Mercedes image MORE THAN the turbo charger suits the whole Porsche image.
And, AMG, being a division of Mercedes is not the truly adventuresome tuner it once was as an independent. For that, look to the engine in my RENNTech 4-Matic wagon. Here RENNTech started with a 5 liter Mercedes V-8 (as AMG does for all the "55" models), and RENNTech then increases the displacement to 6 liters and ends up with a NORMALLY Aspirated 423 HP, 484 lb ft engine. Of course, RENNTech traces it's roots back to AMG. So while it "only" has a little over 70 HP/liter, it does have over 80 lb ft of Torque/liter, which befits the design of the current big block Mercedes V-8. Think what my engine would do with a supercharger!! And the SL 55 shows just what kind of performance a significant amount of horsepower with a TRUCK LOAD of torque can give a car that otherwise wouldn't be shaming a group of the world's most exotic cars.
This doesn't diminish any of the BMW models, which are more "driver's cars" than the Mercedes are. It does mean that BMW was truly putzes for NOT building the M8 with it's 48 valve 6 liter V-12 when they had the chance. NOW, we WILL have to wait for the next generation of M5 and M6.
Good point.....well said.
But why don't MB or AMG tune their 5 liter (300hp soft)or the 5.5 (350hp) liter to a greater extent, it just seems strange.
Is it just the way they want to do things, or is is a cost thing....l don't know.
There's no doubt that torque is the real thing that makes a car move....especially in BMs but HP plays a very important roll to.
I could only imagine how some more HP in some stock MB engines would run.......holy cow
Please don't consider the SLK240 Komp much of an engineering sucess....the worst sounding engine MB has ever made.....well that l've spent time in
APPLES
Originally posted by Apples Good point.....well said.
But why don't MB or AMG tune their 5 liter (300hp soft)or the 5.5 (350hp) liter to a greater extent, it just seems strange.
Is it just the way they want to do things, or is is a cost thing....l don't know.
There's no doubt that torque is the real thing that makes a car move....especially in BMs but HP plays a very important roll to.
I could only imagine how some more HP in some stock MB engines would run.......holy cow
APPLES
Hi Apples,
No, it is NOT strange. There is more than one way to skin a cat, and if you doubt that, just compare the differences between the Lambo's V-12 and the GT2's Turbo flat 6. Talk about different ways to get 2 cars rapidly over 300 KPH. Apples, my friend, I am afraid you are comparing, dare I say it, "apples to oranges". Mercedes, with their long history of supercharging, has taken their torque-laden V-8 and done something they have been doing for 80 years. It is not a strange thing nor a cost thing, it is an efficient thing. And it follows MB's history. It is the end result that matters, and from the end result of the SL 55's engine, I would say it is a success. You can't fault the supercharged 5.5 MB engine because that is NOT what BMW is doing. You can only fault BMW for falling behind and hope that THAT spurs BMW to do something new and better. Competition (both in the showroom and on the track) breeds better choices for us consumers.
Originally posted by MEnthusiast:
Id like to know how the SL55 does with the top down
ME,
I do not know about the SL55, but I can tell you how things were going on a drive test with a Nowack N500 installed on Z8.
Stefan Goldschmidt was driving and, boy, he's a wild driver...
He said: "First let me introduce you to the car!"
He let the top down and floored it. At 290 km/h I told him to pull aside, cause I thought I'm going to loose my hair. We switched places and I put the roof on. From than on, was a very interesting ride, on a fast accelerating rocket, with top speeds over 300 km/h. I never owned a convertible, but I don't think is worth spending a lot of money for power on a convertible. It’s better to have a N500 M5 + a really funny convertible, on which you can enjoy open skies, at a low speed. Just my opinion... Of course, there are always exceptions, like SL55 (where you have a fast coupe and an exclusive cabrio at a 55 sec interval). But, there is always a but,...it's automatic.
Even with the most extensive collection of cars, one can feel incomplete. Like with women, nobody can have it all. Better make a choice and invest feelings, not ambitions. As for the rest, admire from the side and avoid involvement. That's just my view. I will never sell my current M5. I will keep it as a classic and will not buy another future models of M5. Other cars, for several utilities, I already have and probably I’ll change them in the future. My love, though, stays with only one.
OMG, look at me, I got philosophical on Saturday evening. Better, take my wife on a ride in a special car…
See you guys,
Dragos
Things finally start to make sense. I got tired of protesting after a while, and decided to watch from the sidelines. This has been very interesting. That Merc. seemed a little too strong for what it was advertised as. I'm waiting for a test when it comes to the U.S.
Originally posted by Mr Janne But maybe the GT2 had less hp than it should have. Sport Auto tested it at 12,4 seconds from 0-200 km/h and AMS in 12,8 in another issue. I guess we will never know why and maybe we just get more confused the more we discuss this
Still this wouldn't explain the theoretical 1/4 mile ET and speed vs 0-200. This is why I think that even 500hp is on the low side.
It's a common problem that you get more confused the more you learn about something. If you learn enough about something you soon realize how much more there is to learn.
Originally posted by dr. N500 ME,
I do not know about the SL55, but I can tell you how things were going on a drive test with a Nowack N500 installed on Z8.
Stefan Goldschmidt was driving and, boy, he's a wild driver...
He said: "First let me introduce you to the car!"
He let the top down and floored it. At 290 km/h I told him to pull aside, cause I thought I'm going to loose my hair.
Herr Goldscmidt is crazy!
Last time we met you seemed to have most of your hair left, I guess you could've gone above 300 with the top down, right?
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