Potential Oil Cooler GB

[mottati]

Originally Posted by gsfent

So the OE is both a cooler and heater? Then it keeps the temp within a certain range? If so, that would make sense (although not sure of the logic of doing it that way, but that is a separate issue) and I could see why a separate T stat would not be needed.
Regards,
Jerry

Well, yeah, it's a heat exchanger, it doesn't care which way energy goes, as long as it goes down hill (i think that is one of the laws of themodynamics! ). So which ever media is cooler, it will absorb heat, cooling the hotter fluid. Oil cooler, oil heater, whatever....

The only logic behind this is labor. To get to the oe oil coolant heat exchanger, you need to remove the plenum, and at least some throttle bodies, i believe. That's a bit of labor, plus the potential for someone to drop something down an intake port.... This would also negate the need for a thermostat, i think, saving a little parts cost.

The disadvantage is you still have a heat sink under the plenum.

Realistically, i would think you could easily splice into the factory lines from the oil filter, and essentially make a loop that would go out of the filter, to the cooler and back to the 'return' line. I've never messed with braided fluid lines before, but i do have a friend who has done them. I may ask him about this. I would think the local 'speed shop' could have the needed parts, fittings etc. A very quick google search yielded this http://www.instant-g.com/Projects/911Mocal/index.html which looks like a P car, and is priced at $695, as a complete bolt on kit.

[mottati]

So check this out, real oem's diagram of the e46 M3 cooler...
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...04&hg=17&fg=05

Then somehow connect that to this...
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...64&hg=11&fg=30 but what is really interesting is #1, oil filter WITHOUT oil cooler connection, so does that mean there exists a filter with oil cooler connection? And could it be interchanged with our unit?

[gsfent]

Originally Posted by mottati

So check this out, real oem's diagram of the e46 M3 cooler...
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...04&hg=17&fg=05

Then somehow connect that to this...
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...64&hg=11&fg=30 but what is really interesting is #1, oil filter WITHOUT oil cooler connection, so does that mean there exists a filter with oil cooler connection? And could it be interchanged with our unit?

Good detective work. Does the E46 have the same oil cooler/exhanger we do?
I am still wondering if a bigger rad (Zionsville) is a better upgrade, since if I understand correctly, no matter how much oil cooling we provide, the OE cooler will use the rad to dissipate heat, and if it gets hotter than the oil, it does no good.
Or do we simply play banker and put a belt and suspenders on? (new oil cooler AND bigger rad).
Regards,
Jerry

[mottati]

No, the e46 has a "real" oil cooler, in that it is an oil - air heat exchanger (not involved in the car's coolant circut), mounted low under the radiator. A larger radiator could possibly be just as effective as this add on cooler, like you say. I'm not sure if this upgraded radiator is really more efficient, or just more durable though. But like you say, if the oil is hotter than the coolant, it will heat up the coolant and eventually overheat the car if the rad can't dissipate the heat. Either a more efficient radiator, or a better oil cooler.

Now if this add on oil cooler is really good, it would cool the oil sufficiently, and perhaps take a little coolant heat away too, via the oil coolant exchanger that is oe on the car...

At any rate, it looks like it's just you and me Jerry, so i don't think any GB will happen. I'll still do some investigation, as this seems like it should be a do-able project.
Mike

Originally Posted by gsfent

Good detective work. Does the E46 have the same oil cooler/exhanger we do?
I am still wondering if a bigger rad (Zionsville) is a better upgrade, since if I understand correctly, no matter how much oil cooling we provide, the OE cooler will use the rad to dissipate heat, and if it gets hotter than the oil, it does no good.
Or do we simply play banker and put a belt and suspenders on? (new oil cooler AND bigger rad).
Regards,
Jerry

[ard]

Originally Posted by mottati

At any rate, it looks like it's just you and me Jerry, so i don't think any GB will happen. I'll still do some investigation, as this seems like it should be a do-able project.
Mike

Hey, I didn't post- but subscribed to the thread... wanted to see how it develops first.

As we discussed privately, I wanted to make sure it was well engineered and worth the mark up over parts cost.

If you add a cooler without a thermostat it WILL take longer to warm up. Period. Just physics. (Unless the air temp is over 75C.)

Your operating OIL temp will likely be lower too- there are two linked closed loop systems- the oil circuit and the coolant circuit. If the only circuit that is thermostatically controlled is the coolant circuit, then adding a heat sink (cooler) to the oil circuit will lower the oil temp. (Note that this lower temp oil will pull more heat from the coolant circuit- and since the coolant is 'controlled' by a thermostat it will try to regulate, but since the 'linkage' between these circuits is not perfect, the oil will be cooler than it was without the air-oil cooler installed.)

Cooler oil will be more viscous. Does this have ramifications for some applications? Yes. Is it for every car in every environment? No. Might it increase start up wear" Theoretically yes. Can you choose different oil for such a set up? Of course. Will it help in high heat environents? Yes (Either Sacramento at 4500 rpm in 108 degree weather or on the track in any temp over 80...)

Am I interested? yes



A

[mottati]

or, how about something like this, that uses an adapter at the oil filter lid, and routes the oil from there... (e36 kits are like this, and this pic is for an e46, non-M)

[mottati]

So the above pictured kit is made by a sponsor at bimmerforums. I pm'd him and he is pretty sure the e46 (non-M) uses the same oil filter lid as the s62 (this could be easily verified with a trip to the dealer) which would mean this type of adapter would work. The only variables then are the size of the cooler, length of hoses and where to mount.

Anyone with experience with these oil filter lid adapters?
The e36 M3, mcoupe and Mroadster guys seem to be using these...
Mike

[gsfent]

Originally Posted by mottati

So the above pictured kit is made by a sponsor at bimmerforums. I pm'd him and he is pretty sure the e46 (non-M) uses the same oil filter lid as the s62 (this could be easily verified with a trip to the dealer) which would mean this type of adapter would work. The only variables then are the size of the cooler, length of hoses and where to mount.


Mike

That would be an elegant solution for tapping into the oil supply. Maybe one of our engineer types can take a SWAG as to whether the cooler in the kit would be big enough. Need to know size, then adjust for the oil exchanger which may put some extra heat in the system. Since the oil lines are custom, making them longer would be relatively minor inconvenience.
Regards,
Jerry

[M5sedan]

I found the corresponding oil filter housing WITH oil cooler connections - 11 42 7 511 171. It was used on 840Ci's, E32's and E38 740 M60's and the such - depending on market and version. If you have EPC, look at a 540 ECE version in group 17 - diagram 17_0117 - this will show the cooler, hoses and mounting along with an air channel for the cooler. Just don't ask me where the cooler mounts or where the duct goes..........I am at a loss unless someone with an E39 that has it can shed some light on this - tropical or gulf states more likely........

Hope this helps. By the way, I would be interested in this as well........

[ard]

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...=11&fg=30&hl=3

Part description even states 'with oil cooler connections'

Great find! The oil filter element is the same as the M5..