E60 M5 vs new RS6 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

T Bone · 14th June 2007, 23:09

Thanks to M5Wagon on this post http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...05&postcount=1

He found a place that tracks parasitic drivetrain losses.... Here are some samples.

BMW 335i (6%)

http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=647

Audi RS4 (17%) Ball-Licker horrible
http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=281

E46 M3 (12%) eehh
http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=576

E60 M5 (7%)

http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=153

C6 Z06 (7%)

http://www.rri.se/popup/performancegraphs.php?ChartsID=630

Let's do a little math..... The new RS6 is rumored to have 580hp X 16% drivetrain losses = 487.2 hp....which means another kill for the M5 given the effective power and the monsterous weight of the RS6.

At the end of the day Audi drivetrains SUCK! When are they going to ditch Quattro in performance cars?

Habib_2 · 14th June 2007, 23:12

Repost!

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sho...57&postcount=3

:p

AJ · 14th June 2007, 23:30

there is no such thing as 6% drivetrain losses. trust me.

it is just that rather than being ridiculed and sued in some cases by the fans (rx8, blown cobras to name a few) todays manufactures play it safe and actually make more hp at the crank than advertised...

the least hp loss (11%) that i have seen is on a fwd low-hp car with light transmission designed to withstand 120 pounds of tq... this was verified by measuring the hp and the wheels and then the hp at the crank on engine dyno. if somebody tells you that a rwd tranny designed to withstand 400 pounds of torque has less pumping losses than the example i gave you- they dont really mean it.. or if they do they are not running on all cylinders

alex
few cars

cazorp · 14th June 2007, 23:53

I'm pretty confident that if Audi Quattro Gmbh has set the sight at 580hp, theyre not gonna release the RS6 before it can beat the M5 in straight acceleration.. and you can be pretty sure that they probably have a couple of E60/E61's at their disposal to test this thoroughly...

And 'quattro' is a darn good thing (in most audi-models), which cannot be said about xDrive imho..

/Quattro-fan

MGUY · 15th June 2007, 00:06

I doubt that.... dont forget it will have DSG which is much faster than SMG.

T Bone · 15th June 2007, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by cazorp

I'm pretty confident that if Audi Quattro Gmbh has set the sight at 580hp, theyre not gonna release the RS6 before it can beat the M5 in straight acceleration.. and you can be pretty sure that they probably have a couple of E60/E61's at their disposal to test this thoroughly...

And 'quattro' is a darn good thing (in most audi-models), which cannot be said about xDrive imho..

/Quattro-fan

I wouldn't bet on it....1/4 mile maybe..... Audi has to make compromises too.

Even on the mightly RS4, the gearing is too bloody tall and the E39 M5 still kills it.

Let's see the set of compromises Audi makes.

I still own my A6, nice rolling couch that it is, it is no enthusiast car.

T Bone · 15th June 2007, 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGUY

I doubt that.... dont forget it will have DSG which is much faster than SMG.

??? Maybe a whopping 100 ms over 5-6 gears.......

cazorp · 15th June 2007, 00:33

Sorry T Bone, but I can't see that kill you're talking about..

E39 M5
Supertest in sport auto 03/1999
Gewicht 1833 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,9 s
0 - 100 km/h 5,4 s
0 - 120 km/h 7,3 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 9,3 s
0 - 160 km/h 12,1 s
0 - 180 km/h 15,2 s
0 - 200 km/h 18,9 s (best figure I've seen is 16,9 s in a test in sport auto 7/2001, but most states 18,9 s)
400 m, stehender Start - s
1 km, stehender Start - s
Vmax 250 km/h
100 - 0 km/h (kalt) 37,8 m
100 - 0 km/h (warm) 38,2 m
Nordschleife 8.28 min
Hockenheim, kleiner Kurs 1.18,5 min

RS4
Supertest in sport auto 06/2006
Gewicht 1728 kg
0 - 80 km/h 3,4 s
0 - 100 km/h 4,7 s
0 - 120 km/h 6,4 s
0 - 130 km/h - s
0 - 140 km/h 8,3 s
0 - 160 km/h 10,7 s
0 - 180 km/h 13,5 s
0 - 200 km/h 16,9 s (15,9 s in another test from ams 04/2006)
0 - 250 km/h - s
400 m, stehender Start - s
1 km, stehender Start - s
Vmax 262 km/h
100 - 0 km/h (kalt) 35,2 m
100 - 0 km/h (warm) 32,4 m
Nordschleife 8.09 min
Hockenheim, kleiner Kurs 1.15,4 min

(figures from http://www.einszweidrei.de/ )

cazorp · 15th June 2007, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by T Bone

??? Maybe a whopping 100 ms over 5-6 gears.......

Biggest advantage would not be milliseconds, but rather the benefit of having two clutches and really no losses in between shifts as I understand it (but the difference might just be the few milliseconds that you're mentioning, im not that into gearing-techniques and benefits..)