So at the moment I take a car allowance from work and not a company car, this allows me to run the car I want, my E60 m5, now on 122,000 miles. BUT I'm so dissapointed with the new figures I've decided to go back into a company car, and selected the 530d with some extra toys. I will now just buy myself something exciting for weekends and evenings. Thinking either a Porka GT3 or Ferarri 430, need to get some experience in them, but 560bhp in a fat and heavy next gen M5 will NOT be quicker on a long run than E60 me thinks. Above 100 I doubt the F10 will keep up to the E60, and when the E60 starts to struggle when changing up to 7th gear at 185 I'm sure the F10 will have started to struggle a while back. My guess is the on the autobahns and motorways the E60 will out perform the F10 and that after all is what I use mine for and also what I thought the m5 was about.
Would the M5 be better than a combo of a new 530d as a daily and a F430 on the weekends no matter how much power it had? I think you will be extremely happy with such an excellent combo.
All good points and thanks for the input! Thing to remember is that the 530d is FREE, supplied by company, not an option to have a 550 or 535d mores the shame.
As for tuning yep we all know the tuning potential will be massive. If I do get an F10 M5 it will be a few years down the line, no way I would buy new and blow my warranty on a tune, new car, WILL have problems and ANY excuse to invaidate warranty will be taken by BMW UK, not sure how BMW NA are, but here they will look for a remap and they will refuse to pay out!
i disagree. turbos are a LOT more efficient than superchargers and the potential is a lot higher also.
potential for what? 600+ HP (not to mention 800) is already hard to control properly for majority of people even on track, not to mention road..I would always go for supercharged "no lag, less heat" option. We are not talking about 2 liter engines here, but 4-5 liters of displacement..
and lets say you can find nice G-Power M5 V10 for 50.000 Euro, thats 80.000 difference from 130.000 which is basically free fuel/maintenance for what like 10-15 years...
potential for what? 600+ HP (not to mention 800) is already hard to control properly for majority of people even on track, not to mention road..I would always go for supercharged "no lag, less heat" option. We are not talking about 2 liter engines here, but 4-5 liters of displacement..
and lets say you can find nice G-Power M5 V10 for 50.000 Euro, thats 80.000 difference from 130.000 which is basically free fuel/maintenance for what like 10-15 years...
noone was talking about wether someone can control 600+hp or not so im not sure why you're bringing that up. generally, people that are interested in 100k+ cars with high horsepower are capable of handling those power levels, we're not talking about kids here trying to push 5-600 hp out of their hondas so lets be real.
as far as your comment about 'no lag, less heat' - properly sized turbo on a >4l displacement engine shouldnt have any lag and as far as heat goes... have you SEEN the intake air temps on a supercharged car vs turbocharged?
i've been tuning cars for over 10 years now, supercharged cars are the most heat soaked bastards i've ever seen, on properly set up turbo systems the intake air temps coming into the motor are generally 50*F lower than those of supercharged ones.
can a well set up supercharge perform as good as a cobbled together turbo setup? sure, can it outperform a PROPERLY done turbo setup? HELL NO.
didn't know that about intake temps (one has to learn something every day), thought supercharged go lower because of generally lower boost..and not being directly connected to exhaust where the majority of heat goes
I believe you that you have firsthand measuerd intake temps, but there are still some people that tend to disagree..
"Superchargers were in use many years before the turbocharger primarily because it took longer to develop the materials needed for the turbochargers which operate at much higher speeds and temperatures."
had to google for this, the writer probably doesn't take into note only intake temps..
my point was that superchargers are (again, generally) more problem-free(less things that can go bad..), easier to install/setup/maintain, and I have driven some newer turbocars and yes they do have lag (still not driven X5/6M, and I'm talking about lag here not turbo-hole like on some old turbo cars) which give me feeling that I drive some turbodiesel..
powerwise Jeremy Clarkson has talked about nonsense of 600+ hp cars on roads, and I tend to agree with him that 600-700 hp is more than enough on any road including autobahn...
oh i agree with you, 600+hp on the street is a LOT and in the wrong hands can be very dangerous. i had a 1000+hp supra, many 5-600hp VR-4's, and its no argument that it is more than any sane person would ever need on the street. but there are a lot of gearheads out there where thats not enough, me being one of them
as far as the turbos vs superchargers go, i again tend to disagree, with a supercharger, first of all you're giving up horsepower to make horsepower(parasitic loss from the belt) extra load on your crank snout which can wear out your bearings prematurely especially if you overtighten the belt (sometimes you have to, to combat belt slip) then there is wear on all your pulleys etc.
with a turbo, you're not giving up any power since you're using exhaust energy that would otherwise be wasted to drive the turbo. while the turbo itself will be very hot, thats what intercoolers are for.
again, im not saying that superchargers dont work, because clearly they have their place, but i would NEVER go for a blower over a turbo setup.
Stormster though I think I understand where you are coming from I think you will be very disappointed. I changed my E60 for a 535d M Sport a few months ago (for different reasons to you) with a view to buying a second hand F10 M5 in 2013.
If you are doing 30000 autobahn miles how do you think this will feel in the 530d? Its going to feel like you are walking compared to the M5. I thought the extra torque of my 535d over the M5 would in some way make it feel in some way acceptable around town (where 80% of my driving is) but it doesn't at all.
Then there is the cornering. Again naively I thought the M Sport suspension would give me a fair degree of what the proper M car gave me in this respect. Forget it. I now corner at about half the speed I used to in the M5, the car just doesn't have the ability and precision to do any better.
Now don't get me wrong it's still a great car and as a relaxed, very well built good looking cruiser it's fantastic. It's also economical, I'm averaging 30mpg on a tight engine with 80% town driving. If that's what you are after and if thats what your company structure dictates is best then that's great. However after spending 30000 miles in this car you will definitely need a Ferrari or GT3 to make you feel alive again at the weekend.
I've been itching to get out of this car the minute I bought it as a weekend car is not possible for me. So much so that I was test driving used E63 AMGs and C63 AMGs two weeks after I bought it!
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