BMW M5 Forum and M6 Forums banner

Chris Harris has the first drive of the F10 BMW M5 2011 2012 MY

132K views 199 replies 86 participants last post by  mohan 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Here you go folks M5board.com Member Chris Harris : Pre-production new BMW M5 review by Chris Harris | evo car reviews

So here is the full version of the Chris Harris BMW M5 F10 testdrive in Arjeplog:

<iframe width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Y-_xVGuxNEY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In work at the moment so if someone wants to embed the pics etc. Feel free to do so.


"What is it?

The BMW M5. The fast saloon car after which the whole genre is named. Its internal code is F10M – the first time an M car has been given a specific internal name.

Technical highlights********* *

Twin turbochargers, with unspecific modifications to both intake and exhaust systems. Official response to the question of power output is: 'Do you really think we would give it less than an X6M?'. An X6M has 547bhp. There's a seven-speed DCT dual clutch transmission with three different shift speeds and a fully automatic mode. Saloon only for now.

What’s it like to drive?

Is turbocharging a highlight? When it makes a car this flexible and plain accelerative, it has to be. Yes, the near-insanity of the old V10 makes way for slightly reduced throttle response, but it’s marginal. On a Swedish lake, you can still make tiny adjustments to sustain that all-important 1km drift. Does it feel turbocharged? A little bit. Does it make enough induction noise? No. But this isn’t the finished car, the BMW M-gurus insist that the final product will be different in this respect.

I only drove the car on snow, ice and the occasional patch of asphalt. It felt like an M-car in the correct sense: purposeful, but not too aggressive. The steering, chassis and powertrain each have three modes: comfort, sport and sport-plus, giving a myriad of options. The MDM (M Driving Mode) brings a higher threshold DSC intervention that requires steering correction from the driver, or you spin, It works brilliantly. Switch it all off and you have a circa 560bhp, rear-wheel-drive saloon with an LSD. If you can’t enjoy that, you’re a wally.

I can’t tell you much about ride comfort and steering yet, except that with the suspension set to comfort the car is compliant but never soft. The steering is faster than in a regular BMW 5-series.

How does it compare?

The Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG is too good to be a walkover, but this M5 will take some beating. For all current and recent E60 M5 owners know this: the new M5 has a gearbox as fast as the E60s that also works properly in Auto mode. It has a bigger fuel tank than a regular 5 (somewhere between 70 and 80 litres, but they won’t say exactly what – I’m cleverly guessing 75) which with the much improved economy gives a real range of 400 miles. So: range, gearbox, torque – BMW has listened, all of the E60’s vices have been sorted.

Anything else I need to know?

I can’t really comment on the styling because the car was disguised. On narrow winter tyres it’s lacking that delicious signature rear-axle camber, but the flared front wings give just the right suggestion of clout. Expect bespoke seats, masses of M badges, an oil temperature gauge and, hopefully, an M5 specific steering wheel.

To me this car feels like its DNA has been drawn from the E39 M5. It’s a less frenzied machine than the one it replaces: it has torque and flexibility but still the killer pace every M5 owner requires. Something will need to go badly wrong between now and the end of 2011 for the finished car to be anything but a triumph."


<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="853" height="510" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FPIkTQeVeZc?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/q_UjGKt5gt8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
See less See more
1
#94 ·
BMW wants to move away from the manual transmission. The only reason a manual was placed in the E60 M5 was due to a demand from the US market. BMW reluctantly agreed. Car and Driver reported that BMW used the transmission from the E39 M5 to address the demand of a manual in a E60. BMW NA reported that half all M cars are sold to the US market.
 
#97 ·
I believe the car will be epic, as long as the suspension and brakes can keep up with the hp/torque.

No it won't sound as 'F1' as the E60's V10 at 8K rpm, but it will sound great; just somewhat subdued and 'different' especially since its a turbo.

Agree with Gustav: this car won't be seen with a manual 6 speed. It will cost BMW way too much in time and money to validate it for the NA market and it would markedly lower the CO2 average for the car. Not happening.

Bish
 
#98 ·
there is alot of concern from people about turbo lag. i've driven an X6M, an X5M, 335, 535, 550, 750, 760, even a new 740. all of the new twin turbo cars, and even newer single turbo 6's. none of them have even a hint of turbo lag. they feel naturally aspirated. it's not like you punch it and from 800 rpm you have all your available torque.. it's not an electric motor for god's sake! but the powerband is very large and doesnt feel like it's turbocharged. Anyone worried about that rest easy :) referring to the X5M specifically, the power comes on quicker than it did in my E39 M5. (and the damn SAV is even faster!).

although, i would really like to see a manual transmission. i don't drive on a racetrack, so i don't care that it can shift super super fast. cool? yes! but it makes me feel more in control of the car with a manual transmission.
 
#100 ·
Dude, sorry this is so wrong. I have owned an E36 and E46 M3, 335. Now I own a M6 and X6 V8 TT. There is perceptible lag with both the 335 and X6. These turbo motors don't come close to the responsiveness of the V10....note even close. I can play with the throttle to load up the turbo but lag is front and center.

Maybe I am too sensitive.
 
#106 ·
well I guess M engineers will improve aerodynamics (a little bit at least), and even if they don't, its hard to believe that 15% better aero can beat 20% more power...

I'm not that into mechanics and still can't see why more rpm makes for a better use of gearing, F10 massive torque will allow engineers to set the gearing without fuss..I mean speed doesn't make impact on acceleration there (cant see why its different than roll from 100 mph), F10 will ALWAYS have more avg power(or power/aero ratio) so I can't see E60 coming even close
 
#109 ·
well I guess M engineers will improve aerodynamics (a little bit at least), and even if they don't, its hard to believe that 15% better aero can beat 20% more power...
M cars generally have more drag. The bigger engines need more intake, the wider tires have greater fender flair, and they generally have more downforce for better grip at speed. All of these decrease aerodynamic efficiency.

At high speeds, a little aerodynamic efficiency equals a lot of power.

I'm not that into mechanics and still can't see why more rpm makes for a better use of gearing, F10 massive torque will allow engineers to set the gearing without fuss..I mean speed doesn't make impact on acceleration there (cant see why its different than roll from 100 mph), F10 will ALWAYS have more avg power(or power/aero ratio) so I can't see E60 coming even close
A disadvantage of the twin-turbo is the additional heat soak on long high-speed runs that lowers power output.

I don't believe the 205mph (unrestricted) top end of the E60 M5 will be bested by the F10.
 
#113 ·
Alright...just what the heck are you people smoking? A "private company"? Did you even bother going to their Web site?

BMW Group

typically a private company won't have a stock-price ticker graph with the label "Common Stock" unless they are in fact a publicly traded company. Or, did you mean "public" as in held in trust by the public (aka government)?

Sheesh!
 
#122 ·
At least it won't be an automatic!

1) Nobody here has driven the car - give it a chance. If you don't like it - don't buy it
2) NA engines that run gas are going the way of the dodo bird. Fuel consumption and emissions standards are getting too tough.
3) I drive 3 versions (E28, E34 & E60) of the M5 on a regular basis. They all have their own characteristics/quirks. I never find myself driving one of them and thinking- boy I wish I was in the the E60 or the E28. They are all amazing cars - so is the E39. I am sure the F10 will be the same. This is BMW's flagship - they won't dissapoint.
4) Enjoy the ride - the next several months will be a lot of fun as the marketers tease us with new info, etc.
5) At least it will have DCT:applause:
 
#123 ·
Each to their own... Personally, not as aggressive as an E60, sound is weak like the X5M. The dash looks as though it has a lot going on which is too much for me, I enjoy simplicity.

Twin turbo just for a heads up for non turbo owners, can be a real pain in the ***, you can **** turbo wheels and have all sorts of troubles and should this become an issue it will be more to replace etc than a vanos issue! I honestly believe the E60 is and will remain the best M5 made due to its V10 configuration in a saloon. I will test drive an F10 when it arrives here in Oz, but I know for a fact that a turbo car with DCT is going to be boring as bat ****, simply accelerate/brake accelerate/brake. The main reason why I considered the E60 to be the one for me was the pure engagement and rawness of the car not the technology or lack of drivers effort which the C63 AMG and E92 M3 in DCT form felt.

All the best to anyone considering the car, it will be very easy to drive and rather technical in the cockpit but torque wise a monster from the twin turbos.
 
#124 ·
I have recently sampled, over a number of days, both a 535 and 550 F10. Induction and exhaust sound, blindfolded, there is no way to tell them apart, think vacuum cleaner on high. Driving experience the same just one has a little has more power and torque than the other, yet delivery is exactly the same (and there is lag)
Both comfortable yet boring, soft riding, floaty, whooshing, 7 series like, limos.
///M division have a real challenge in front of them to woo real ///M enthusiasts to the F10 M5. Yes it will be fast, yes the DCT is an awesome 'box but there is a real danger it will be a little too soft, fuzzy and non descript in appearance.

Time will tell but if I had the spare coin I would be collecting the best E39 M5 I could find, as a "soft" F10 M5 will ensure this models place in ///M history as the last of the "pure" M5's. Yes, I know, I own a E60 but if the F10 strays even further from the ///M philosophy then I believe the E39 will benifit the most (as a collectable).

Now that is nearly 3 cents worth ?

S.
 
#140 ·
However, in terms of "non-softness" in fallign order I would say is M5 E28 -> M5 E34 -> M5 E60 -> M5 E39.

M5 E34 and M5 E60 shares the same high-revving feeling with just mroe and more power such as the 6-cylinder BMW M3's as well is my feeling.

Time will tell but if I had the spare coin I would be collecting the best E39 M5 I could find, as a "soft" F10 M5 will ensure this models place in ///M history as the last of the "pure" M5's. Yes, I know, I own a E60 but if the F10 strays even further from the ///M philosophy then I believe the E39 will benifit the most (as a collectable).

Now that is nearly 3 cents worth ?

S.
 
#126 ·
There's good conversation going on in here...just thought I'd add that the latest issue of Roundel mentions the F10 M5 to have 555 HP. Didn't say anything about torque..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gustav
#127 · (Edited)
I had the M3 E90 2010 model with M-DCT and the gearbox IMO was great, the best. I now have the 2011 M Sport 550i and it does perform well almost on a par with the M3 in most situations. I would love the new M5 to be :
A/ not stupid Money,
B/ 580+ BHP and if so I would be up for a buy.:cheers:
 
#130 ·
Why such a bash for turbo cars?
Sure they don't sound as exciting as 8000-9000 RPM NA screamers.
BUT - they provide torque where 95% of your driving will occur in a road car - 2000-4000rpm.
If you can reduce the lag associated with larger turbos and approach the throttle response of a NA engine, then you have a great car.
If you can have low lag with a high(is) redline of say 7000-7500rpm you will end up with a usable torque curve at least matching the V10.
Say we look at 2500 - 7500 rpm, vs. 3500 vs 8000rpm.
You gain 500rpm of usable torque where you are most likely to use it.

Is the 911 GT2 RS boring?
Was the F40 Boring?
Was the EVO VIII boring?
IS the McLaren MP4-12C boring?

If turbo cars are so poor - then how come most drift cars appear to be FI?
You would think in the art form they call drifting - throttle response would be a primary attribute to set and hold crazy slip angles.

You have to remember that the F10 M5 is first and foremost a 4dr road car.
It is not an M3 GTS, and surely not aimed as a trackday toy.

I look forward to the day where we have a seamless marriage of the electric assist motor and range of the gasoline engine to combine for a ruler flat torque curve from stall to 8000rpm.
Combine this with seamless shifts from a 7, 8, or 9 speed gearbox and you will have acceleration numbers never before seen.
0-60 benchmarks will go from mid 4 seconds to 3 seconds or less.
What we think is fast right now will be merely quick.

Biggest problem with the F10 M5? Not the engine type - but the weight.
 
#133 ·
New M5 in US?

Is anyone out there picking up any intel on when the new M5 (bi-turbo V8 version) will be made avail in the US? My local dealers in the northeast are clueless on this type of question. Guessing it might be for the 2012 model year, but wondering too when a version with clutch/std 6 or 7 speed manual will be offered. Don't have much interest in auto version with paddle-shifts.

BV
 
#134 · (Edited)
Why such a bash for turbo cars?

Comments to SleeperE39 comments, but no need for reply necessarily... These are just my old fashioned opinions.:noSMG:

Why such a bash for turbo cars?
Sure they don't sound as exciting as 8000-9000 RPM NA screamers.

** That is right. The difference with sound and motor is there. V10 has the same type of note as Gallardo. V8 with turbos, well it can also be made sound good but still not that special. Biggest difference is the throttle response.

BUT - they provide torque where 95% of your driving will occur in a road car - 2000-4000rpm.
If you can reduce the lag associated with larger turbos and approach the throttle response of a NA engine, then you have a great car.
If you can have low lag with a high(is) redline of say 7000-7500rpm you will end up with a usable torque curve at least matching the V10.
Say we look at 2500 - 7500 rpm, vs. 3500 vs 8000rpm.
You gain 500rpm of usable torque where you are most likely to use it.

** Turbo is always turbo. There always is and will be present the "lag" and "kick". However, that is not a main problem. Still I wonder why not use the belt driven charger? There is no lag nor kick.

Is the 911 GT2 RS boring?
Was the F40 Boring?
Was the EVO VIII boring?
IS the McLaren MP4-12C boring?

** Ýou can not seriously speak about these "cult" sports/racing cars and compare with the new sophisticated "tank";) (excluding EVO VIII which is very boring to my opinion just like all other "dozen in ten" look "rally-cars")

If turbo cars are so poor - then how come most drift cars appear to be FI?
You would think in the art form they call drifting - throttle response would be a primary attribute to set and hold crazy slip angles.

** No one said turbo cars are poor. This is just a comparison. Ofcourse BMW turbo engines are good. That just is not alone enough with new "M" 5. That car has to be extremely good.

You have to remember that the F10 M5 is first and foremost a 4dr road car.

** It should not be. It should be a very very special "road able" car.

It is not an M3 GTS, and surely not aimed as a trackday toy.

** It should also be aimed as a track day toy if it has the label "M"

I look forward to the day where we have a seamless marriage of the electric assist motor and range of the gasoline engine to combine for a ruler flat torque curve from stall to 8000rpm.
Combine this with seamless shifts from a 7, 8, or 9 speed gearbox and you will have acceleration numbers never before seen.
0-60 benchmarks will go from mid 4 seconds to 3 seconds or less.
What we think is fast right now will be merely quick.

** You mean, when the car can do the trip even alone. Well, it can already but where is the point? An "M" should always be a driver's car.

Biggest problem with the F10 M5? Not the engine type - but the weight.

** Yes, that is a problem as well.
 
#144 ·
I'm not happy about the prospect that the car will run similar horsepower numbers to the X5M and X6M
Not that 555hp........( 547hp for the U.S. I assume ) is shabby mind you - 547hp is a nice number

However -

Did they back the horsepower numbers down a tad, so the DCT will work without having any issues ?
I wonder what this is all about

I thought the new F10 M5 would have at least 600hp or close to it
Am I missing something ?

If the new M5 comes with 560hp - that's all well and good

But I'm going to pass-

I can pick up a year old 550i - get the DINAN chip -
and save about $40 grand in the process.

Or keep the E60 M5 - and supercharge the beast ( ESS where are you ? )

I know I'm gonna catch heat for this.....LOL
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top