Performance Estimates - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

grime015 · 24th October 2009, 01:00

Lots of talk about what kind of engine/transmission, but how does it have to perform to be the benchmark performance sedan again?

With the Audi RS6 at 580hp and a 0-60 of ~4.5 seconds, I feel like the new M5 will have 620-650 hp and a 0-60 in 4.2 seconds or less. Reason being is that BMW has to set a new benchmark in the ultimate sedan category for it to be profitable. If they take a conservative route (580-600hp) they will be just another alternative to the already present Mercedes, Audi, Cadillac sports sedans on the market and will get stuck competing on price. By setting themselves ahead of the pack in performance they insure that there are no close alternatives, capture a much larger market share and won't have to discount them to get them out the door. The M5 has always been the "halo" sedan and I doubt that ///M is going to come out with a car to have it be surpassed and second best in a year or two.

Just my thoughts on the matter. I was really discouraged by some of the more conservative performance estimates i have been reading. Who wants to pay ~$100+K on a car that gets beat up by a Cadillac?

GD · 24th October 2009, 01:23

At some point, the current HP war will have to end. The problem is also adding weight - if the engine was a Twin Turbo V10, and the weight remained the same, that would be very nice. Crazy power all across the rev range. I just don't see them coming out with a 650 HP car, no matter how much fun that would be.

grime015 · 24th October 2009, 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by GD

At some point, the current HP war will have to end. The problem is also adding weight - if the engine was a Twin Turbo V10, and the weight remained the same, that would be very nice. Crazy power all across the rev range. I just don't see them coming out with a 650 HP car, no matter how much fun that would be.

The Audi RS6 has a twin turbo V10, has 580hp, all wheel drive, and its been on the market for a year now. Is BMW going to release a car in 2011 that is only marginally better than a 3-4 yr old audi? I think not. Hopefully, they're going to make the RS6 look like a VW Beetle.

2009 Audi RS6 Pictures, Specs & Engine Review

tripletdad · 24th October 2009, 22:25

I think you're right, they have to end soon. But I really dont care if a CTS-V is faster 0-60. The car is made of junk and I would be embarrassed to drive it. I would much rather have the stock VET that I could MOD and track or better yet, a Cayman S. I went and test drove a CTS-V and while the front end is nice, the rest of the car looks like a pimp mobile. Accerleration is amazing, but the gear box is clumsy at best. But at the end of the day i was still driving a caddy. Yuck. GM has a LONG way to go to overcome that image and with all the jeweled plastic, the only thing missing on that car was white walls and curb feelers. In addition, you have to buy it at a Cadillac dealer, ugghhh, the car is a mess and that beast of a V-8 is silenced by the superchargers, very disappointing.

BTW, I think the hi rev engines are going to be a thing of the past with gas prices going higher, displacement will go down, turbo charging will become more common so keep your V-10.

I will say I am intrigued with what audi is doing, esp next year's RS5. But the added weight of the 4 wheel drive will cause problems esp in handling etc. Watch top gear's tracking of the new M3 vs C63 vs S4. M3 smoked all 3 and they were surprised that audi did so poorly with the 4 wheel drive. You should also see what their opinions of Audis and their owners are, I cant say the words on this board for fear of getting booted but its funny.

I was also told that BMW plans to offer a TWIN Turbo 5.7 V-10 in the future M7. HP is said to be over 700. A poor man's Bentley. LOL

Mark Carson · 28th October 2009, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripletdad

I was also told that BMW plans to offer a TWIN Turbo 5.7 V-10 in the future M7. HP is said to be over 700. A poor man's Bentley. LOL

Won't happen. BMW won't produce an M7 (that is an M car based on the F-01/F-02 7 series car). And even if they did, they already have a twin turbo V-12 in the 760 to draw from. Plus they could just drop the X5M/X6M TT V-8 in if they wanted more output than the 750 makes. But doesn't matter, no M7 from BMW. There is almost zero market for the car.

BMW Individual DID however build a one off older generation 7 series car (E-65 or E-66) with an S-85 V-10 engine for a customer in Asia. They freely speak of the car at the M Studio but I've never seen any photos of it. They even custom made the center console higher to fit the customer's physique. But even that car was not badged as an M7.

techiehost · 30th October 2009, 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Carson

Won't happen. BMW won't produce an M7 (that is an M car based on the F-01/F-02 7 series car). And even if they did, they already have a twin turbo V-12 in the 760 to draw from. Plus they could just drop the X5M/X6M TT V-8 in if they wanted more output than the 750 makes. But doesn't matter, no M7 from BMW. There is almost zero market for the car.

BMW Individual DID however build a one off older generation 7 series car (E-65 or E-66) with an S-85 V-10 engine for a customer in Asia. They freely speak of the car at the M Studio but I've never seen any photos of it. They even custom made the center console higher to fit the customer's physique. But even that car was not badged as an M7.

While the suspension and brakes might not be there... the 760 is a very fast car, 0-60 in under 5.. it is very close to M territory.

tripletdad · 31st October 2009, 10:16

I sat in a black on black 2010 750il with M Sport Package. With M rims, sport grill, body trim, steering wheel etc. I don't see them stopping there. They are building the demand. Besides the fact this is what the dealer told me (my friend is the GSM) they were given a prelim outline on the car from BMW that they would be getting an M7 at some pt in the future.

I disagree with your assessment for the car. The S63, Maserati Quad, Aston Martin Rapide and Porsche Panamera (esp twin turbo) are proof there is a market. And Porsche has its eyes dead set on BMW. They have to have a car like this in their lineup. When I asked who they thought would buy the car and the answer I was given, it would go after this market, sort of the poor man's Bentley... etc. BMW does not have a car like this.

techiehost · 31st October 2009, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripletdad

I sat in a black on black 2010 750il with M Sport Package. With M rims, sport grill, body trim, steering wheel etc. I don't see them stopping there. They are building the demand. Besides the fact this is what the dealer told me (my friend is the GSM) they were given a prelim outline on the car from BMW that they would be getting an M7 at some pt in the future.

I disagree with your assessment for the car. The S63, Maserati Quad, Aston Martin Rapide and Porsche Panamera (esp twin turbo) are proof there is a market. And Porsche has its eyes dead set on BMW. They have to have a car like this in their lineup. When I asked who they thought would buy the car and the answer I was given, it would go after this market, sort of the poor man's Bentley... etc. BMW does not have a car like this.

They have an X5m so why not.

tripletdad · 31st October 2009, 10:37

I also forgot the Audi RS8 but I usually forget Audis LOL

In addition, look at MB's model lineup. The S600 with the Bi Turbo V12 is the poor man's Bentley and it targets that market. The S63 appeals to the more performance orientated driver. The Panamera S, 4s And Twin Turbo span the entire market in the uber luxury sedan market place.

BMW really has no answer for Porsche (they compete with the 911 with the M3, the Cayenne with the X6) and now Panamera enters the market place and can compete at the Price pt of the base 7 series all the way up to the 760. BMW has to have another option in the & lineup. And even if they use the 4.4TT they have the sport suspension and M body styling already available. Dropping in an M engine is easy.

I bet we see this car by 2012 if not sooner.

Mark Carson · 31st October 2009, 12:22

I certainly won't disagree with the ever changing market and BMW's possible response to it. All I can offer up is that in Sep 2008, the BMW M regional manager for the Americas flatly said they were not going to produce an M7. Times change and you may right in the end, but as of now you notice there are F-10 M5 mules running around, but no M7 prototypes/mules. So I would not hold your breath. You'll see an F-12 M6 first.

An M Sport package, according to BMW M (not me) does not an M car make. I will agree it is a gray area as to when the mods to the standard car are sufficient to call it a "M", but they seem to have a sense of what it takes and the 7 series have not gotten there (yet).

Unlike MB who will make an AMG out of everything in the model range (almost), BMW sees an M car as being closer it their Motorsport heritage. The X5M/X6m seem to fly in the face of this...Hmmmmm.....

Cheers