Performance Estimates - Page 2 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com)

MEnthusiast · 2nd November 2009, 20:05

I would think they could make the argument for an M7 because they have moved away from their traditional taboos of NA engines, RWD, and manual only gearboxes with the current M SAVs. I think you could do an M7 that would be short wheel base only, more focused experience than the 760, which is LWB only in the US. The car this would hurt is the Alpina B7. If I am BMW, I have to wonder why AMG, Porsche, and perhaps even Maserati should have the large high performance sedan market to themselves.

I think BMW M is still trying to be careful with the expanded model line up but in the case of the SAVs I think their philosophy is to bring a motorsport experience to the SAVs. Given how large the cars have become, in the case of the M5, I hate to say it but the X5 M is a far better daily proposition for the vast majority of the people. Its more comfortable, its got a much easier transmission to live with, its just as fast as the M5, its got more interior room, has AWD for those worried about such things, and it even has better fuel economy while making more horsepower, and substantially more torque. I think this wider philosophy of bringing the motorsport experience to a larger array of vehicles has to happen for BMW M to grow. The thing they need to do is keep the M5 and M3 as focused as possible- if they do that- perhaps make them even more hard core in the future- especially the M3, they will retain their legitimacy, which is what we would all worry about.

The world keeps changing, BMW needs to keep moving and changing too, otherwise they will get left behind.

GeorgeSmooth · 2nd November 2009, 21:50

I do not think weight is going to be a issue. A lot of people complained about the new V8 being front heavy etc and the V8 landed being lighter than the straight six it replaced.
My guess is the new M5 is going to have crazy acceleration. They used the 7 speed SMG to their advantage and created a top end monster. With the eight speed we going to see speed from 0-300.

techiehost · 2nd November 2009, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeSmooth

I do not think weight is going to be a issue. A lot of people complained about the new V8 being front heavy etc and the V8 landed being lighter than the straight six it replaced.
My guess is the new M5 is going to have crazy acceleration. They used the 7 speed SMG to their advantage and created a top end monster. With the eight speed we going to see speed from 0-300.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have a nice surprise. That BMW Vision Concept has a diesel and several electric motors. It has a few boost options from the electric motors. Where you can get an extra 100-150 HP or so for 10 seconds with an 80 pound battery I think. Anyways... I think at a minimum the next M5 is getting the 555 HP engine out of the X5M. They may be opting to make it a hybrid, which could offer 600HP or more for a long period of time and probably up to 700HP for 10-20 seconds.

tripletdad · 3rd November 2009, 06:13

As someone who owns an M5, I would say that the the M5 is a great daily driver, esp when you can toggle the M mode on or off. I think a slush box Uber SUV is good for the non enthusiast driver who wants a fast car. I would rather have a 5.1 sec 750i which is nearly as fast, a nice ride and the BEST daily driver.THe X5M is still not that big of a car and the back seat room is not that great, though a bit more than the M5, but like the "better" fuel economy argument, it's negligible.

They did it because of Porsche's runaway success but I could spend a lot of time on this subject as I am not quite sure that BMW's venture into UBER SUV land is going to be as successful or profitable as they think.

Either way it make for fun conversation

Mark Carson · 3rd November 2009, 06:50

I heard that VM is dropping their ugly Toureg which is not selling that well. That in turn effects Porsche's ability to produce the Cayenne. So either BMW will have more of the market to themselves, or they will find themselves alone trying to sell 555 HP SUVs. Except for AMG I suppose...

ur20v · 3rd November 2009, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by tripletdad

THe X5M is still not that big of a car and the back seat room is not that great, though a bit more than the M5,

Crikey lol! How much room do you guys need, in the UK the E60 is a BIG car and has more room in the back than most so if the X5M has more but that STILL isn't enough??? What are you doing in the back? transporting cattle?? playing basket ball???

I for one even as a 'big' bloke (6'.4" 17 stone) don't need all the room I have so I don't need a bigger car.

Jay

Fahrenheit · 4th November 2009, 01:44

I think the next generation M5/M6 will be very fast cars with 0 to 100km/h sprints in the low 4 seconds mark but not below 4 seconds. However, I bet it will no longer be the case that the next M5/M6 can take on as many next generation supercars, as the E60 M6/E63 M6 did with its current generation of supercars, because our cars and the next M5/M6 aren't going to be that light. I bet BMW will have a new supercar based on the M1 Concept, albeit it will very likely be some "green" supercar type, which will then take on the next generation supercars with 0 to 100km/h sprints well below 4 seconds.

techiehost · 4th November 2009, 02:10

0-60 in under 4 seconds.... traction starts to become a determining factor. I think a shorter wheel base makes for a quicker weigh transfer to the rear. There are very few FR cars that can break 4 seconds. Even 1000hp viper does 0-60 in 4.3 yet is the fastest among the group of cars... this illustrates that traction issues of FR http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...0_Data.pdf.pdf It could probably do 4 seconds flat with the right driver, or under 4 on a very sticky track, but where do you draw the line?

Mark Carson · 4th November 2009, 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by techiehost

but where do you draw the line?

I was going to say ZERO, but really I want, no need, a quantum mechanics car that can go 0-60 in negative seconds. It will arrive before the start. Wait, perhaps it has already happened. I'm so confused...

Seriously, I agree with your post. Traction and the driver become the issues, not the car's capabilities.

techiehost · 4th November 2009, 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Carson

I was going to say ZERO, but really I want, no need, a quantum mechanics car that can go 0-60 in negative seconds. It will arrive before the start. Wait, perhaps it has already happened. I'm so confused...

Seriously, I agree with your post. Traction and the driver become the issues, not the car's capabilities.

Well yes where do you draw the line with 0-60 but also in regards to driver and conditions.

I don't think it is a HP/weight issue with the M5... I think it is the layout.. The E60 M5 could do 0-60 in less than 4 seconds with enough traction, even just having AWD with no weight gain would put it under 4. That Vision Concept I mentioned is supposed to have 4wd capabilities. They could give the M5 something similar, 50-100hp hybrid assist on the front wheels, along with the 555-600hp ICE, easily crack 4 seconds. On the other hand... BMW might enhance launch control with optimal suspension settings to enable more weight transfer, although I don't think BMW cares much about 0-60 times, they seem to publish conservative 0-60 times and I think in the press release for the E39 and E60 M5 they just said 0-60 in less than 5.

In any event I think the 1/4 mile is a more useful number than 0-60.