Well its the end of N/A M series Cars by the looks of it.
Its the end of an Era.
But unlike other members I dont think its THE END as many have said. I believe its the dawn of a new ERA.
With the changing world both from a climate and economic point, it was going to happen. Ok so things might not be as good as they have been for over the last 30 years, (in M Car terms and esp engines) but its the start of something new.
Yes I'm not a turbo fan either, but times move on gentleman, and I still believe the future M cars will still be the best drivers tools in the business, as they have always been in relation to their imitators. And will still set the benchmark in dynamics for others to try and match.
Plus every M car has always raised and set the bar for the other imitators...........
Turbos or no Turbos!!!
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The BMW M5 (c) 1984
The ORIGINAL & BEST.............
Imitators include
Any AMG, RS Audi, XJR TATA sorry meant Jaguar
I am sure BMW are flattered
ALPINA in one word.....PEERLESS
Last edited by Amjad Ali; 28th November 2008 at 00:03.
...now that's REALLY disgusting - - yea, not just the turbo crap, no no, not just that, the really sickening thing, is putting the M sticker, on that POS SUV...
Not to mention those among us who, in the pursuit of increased naturally aspirated power, might go the route of the stroker motor instead of the next generation.
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2006 M5--Sapphire black/sepang Dinan: free flow exhaust, Stage 3 engine software, high flow throttle bodies, high flow air mass meter/intake Assemblies, stage 2 suspension, 13% underdrive crankshaft pulley, 5.7 liter stroker engine (I think I am finally done)
Every time a fresh iteration of a BMW model is due there is a rash of speculation described as "official".
A neighbour just gave me a pile of oldish car magazines, which I have been skimming through.
It is clear that such publications are not a very good source of real information now their "Official" predictions are revealed for what they are, more or less educated guesses.
You have to admire the skill of some of the Artists who do the "impressions" though. A lot of them are better looking than the eventual metal.
There will be changes to power units for sure because all car makers are under legislative pressure to cut their average CO2 per mile emissions to levels way below today's.
Electric cars are a long way from bridging that gap, and I don't hear anyone talking about how they are going to recycle all the dud battery sets which have reached their recharge life's end.
BMW at least seems to be taking a positive approach in making its cars more efficient by cutting waste and is already shifting in the right direction. Electrothermal regeneration using exhaust heat is the latest small step to add to the others they already have in production.
Let's hope that the electric power steering which undoubtably saves energy will mature to be a match for the best hydraulic systems. If there is one thing that spoils a car for me it is dead-feeling steering.
At the moment it looks like Porsche has the most work to do to be compliant with the upcoming laws. At least amongst the European makers. We live in interesting times.
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M5 - Weapon of Mass Consumption
No, we live in crappy times, where car makes are being dictated by tree huggers and assasins on behalf of the environment
Quote:
Modding future BMWs with forced induction is going to be fun fun fun
It will be no throttle response no throttle response no throttle response
Quote:
But unlike other members I dont think its THE END as many have said. I believe its the dawn of a new ERA.
It most definately is the end of the serious car era. Its the beginning of an era where cars will have electrical motors and artificial sound samples to make them sound like combustion engines. That's where its going.
Let's figure this:
1) The Kyoto treaty, the most important global agreement on the environment, is not recognised by the largest polluters ( China, India etc) and isn't enforced up to them aswell. In China, each week, a new factory rises that wasn't up to our 1980's standards
2) The car industry has spend hundreds of millions trying to meet the idiotic environmental stds of the past decennia. It killed the US cars ( V8's 5.7 with 190 bhp) and it will kill Euro performance cars. Now then, another hundreds of millions is needed to get to the 130 g/km level ( and those tree huggers even want lower!!) so that we can shave an additional 0.1% off the total polution by cars, which is in its turn less than 10% of the total C02 pollution on the globe. So that's a decrease of one thousand's on the total pollution
3) Making new cars is what hurst the environment. People should be motivated to keep the cars they have. The carbon footprint of the production of a car quadruples the emission the car produces in 15 years
4) Turbo M-cars will be crap. The BMW Turbo cars are crap now, especially the twin-turbo. Please don't argue with me, this is not open for discussion to me. I have driven all of the 3.0 biturbo Diesel and petrol guises, and they all suck. Gearbox doesn't lock since the torque is too high , there is NO throttle response AT ALL. Nothing has changed since the 2002Turbo, since turbo are still essentially the same, no matter how many dump valves, spool-up systems, wastegates, vaccuum control, electronic control, variable geometry etc is applied, it is still a device that gets powered from exhaust flow, and thus ALWAYS has a delay in it.
What should we do?
The car makers should stand up against this nonsense. They are almost solely being held responsible for any global warming ( Which is still not proven, to me its like the 90's acid rain stuff that has appeared to be nonsense in these times) although they have done more, much more than they should have in order to 'save' the environment. Now its time that other polluters are being drawn to the light, i.e factories.
And then again, I have NO regret at all if I have to buy a car that isn't good for the environment. Any car that has a huge displacement like the V10's will not be used for 50k miles annually, so who cares? Most 2005 M5's don't have higher mileages than 60-90 K, so what's their harm? And even if they would , I'd gladly trade 0.00000001% of pollution against driving a car that I like and so should anyone else.
I mean, perhaps the governments should focus on real problems instead of pushing these idiotic measures through the throats of the manufacturers.
If the environment causes M-cars to become sad, I say, screw the environment.
Last edited by Sebring NL; 10th December 2008 at 16:01.
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The Kyoto treaty, the most important global agreement on the environment, is not recognised by the largest polluters (China, India etc) I think you missed one (hint: USA)
The car industry has spend hundreds of millions trying to meet the idiotic environmental stds of the past decennia. It killed the US cars ( V8's 5.7 with 190 bhp) and it will kill Euro performance cars. Now then, another hundreds of millions is needed to get to the 130 g/km level ( and those tree huggers even want lower!!) so that we can shave an additional 0.1% off the total polution by cars, which is in its turn less than 10% of the total C02 pollution on the globe. So that's a decrease of one thousand's on the total pollution ...Way back in 1993, vehicles produced 61.7 percent of total national CO emissions, 31.8 percent of total NO2 emissions, 26.14 percent of total VOC emissions, and 28.3 percent of lead emissions. Its only gotten worse since then I assure you. Just to get ahead of it, you and i will just have to disagree about which one of us is getting their statistics from parties that have a financial interest in how the whole "save the planet" thing shakes out.
Making new cars is what hurst the environment. People should be motivated to keep the cars they have. Agreed, but keep them in top running order or their emission levels go up and you end up negating any positive effect of higher emission standards on the new cars.
Turbo M-cars will be crap. The BMW Turbo cars are crap now... since turbo are still essentially the same, no matter how many dump valves, spool-up systems, wastegates, vaccuum control, electronic control, variable geometry etc is applied, it is still a device that gets powered from exhaust flow, and thus ALWAYS has a delay in it. Not too many complaints from the P-car contingent. Perhaps turbo cars aren't too bad?
The car makers should stand up against this nonsense. They are almost solely being held responsible for any global warming ( Which is still not proven Are you kidding? Have you seen any of the research work in the ISI database. Out of 900 peer-reviewed research papers, none of them disagree about the existence and primary cause of global warming. Pretty damning stuff...unassailable actually. I consider myself a healthy skeptic, but you take skepticism too far and all you have left is obstinance in the face of reason.
to me its like the 90's acid rain stuff that has appeared to be nonsense in these times Acid rain is real. Abnormal pH levels in rain caused by air pollutants mainly sulfur dioxide caused and continues to cause damage to aquatic and land based life, flora and fauna. Just because it's no longer on the evening news doesn't mean it went away.
although they have done more, much more than they should have in order to 'save' the environment. They can do more and should.
Now its time that other polluters are being drawn to the light, i.e factories. Agreed. They should also be held responsible.
I'm not picking a fight, merely offering a counterpoint. I'm also not a raging environmentalist (Exhibit A: My 02 E39 M5 ), but there is a point where people WILL overwhelm this planets ability to cope, repair and replenish. Reasonable people can agree that you can can't cannibalize, pollute and disregard this planet, like any other home, without at some point having no place to live.
Just my .02
__________________ 2002 M5 Carbon Black/Caramel Delimited, H&R Springs, V1 Hardwired, Black/Gray ///M badges and roundels
XM radio, DICE iPod, BMW.Bluetooth JL Audio speakers/subwoofer/amps 6000k lowbeam HID upgrade
Umnitza 8000k HID foglights
other than that stocker than stock...
........
(hint: USA) 
...Way back in 1993, vehicles produced 61.7 percent of total national CO emissions, 31.8 percent of total NO2 emissions, 26.14 percent of total VOC emissions, and 28.3 percent of lead emissions. Its only gotten worse since then I assure you. Just to get ahead of it, you and i will just have to disagree about which one of us is getting their statistics from parties that have a financial interest in how the whole "save the planet" thing shakes out. 
), but there is a point where people WILL overwhelm this planets ability to cope, repair and replenish. Reasonable people can agree that you can can't cannibalize, pollute and disregard this planet, like any other home, without at some point having no place to live.
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