@Russ: the toe on the rear wheels is 1°, with the wheels looking like this: \ / if the car would ride upwards on your screen. That would make sure the wheels are perfectly straight under acceleration. How would you do it? I'm still learning about camber/caster/toe, so all input is appreciated.
I've been thinking about a spoiler, and a have an OEM GT spoiler laying around somewhere. But I really like the look of the coupe without any spoilers, and I only want to put a spoiler on if I really really really need it.
I'm used to the current feel now, and have no issues with it. Maybe I'll change my mind later on.
If I understand your explanation, it seems you might be running toe-out on the rear wheels which will add some instability, but give you a sharper turn-in. It is my understanding that toe-out is more for the front wheels than the rear since the instability can be managed by attention at the steering wheel. This set-up makes your turn-in better, but doesn't allow for relaxed highway driving...
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"Quitters never win, winners never quit. But those who never win and never quit are idiots."
2008 BMW Z4M Coupe
2007 BMW M6 Coupe--SOLD!
2004 VW Passat W8 4Motion
1993 BMW 318i
2010 335d--on order
At the front wheels, I have a 0° toe setting... At the rear wheels, I have toe out indeed. 1° at each wheel.
Actually, the first time I had an alignment done, was before the first Ring trip. The high speed stability was OK then.
Then I installed the camber plates, and had them re-align the front wheels: just make sure the toe is 0° again at both front wheels. That's all they changed. The rear axle was untouched. And the next trip, I felt 'some' instability at high speed.
I want a setup that performs good on the track, and is OK on the highway. A perfect stable car at high speeds is a nice extra, but not required.
Thanks for the info!
Nope I haven't started a new thread on my project yet...and it looks like I may be doing part exchange deal on an already modified track M3. I wanted to start from scratch and do it exactly how I wanted, probably gradually over time but the car I'm interested in has pretty much exactly the modifications I would have eventually done anyway.
Anyway the deal is two weeks away, if it comes off I'll start a new thread on it.
As for toe-in at the rear, as RussRamz says toe-out at the rear makes the rear less laterally stable. A rough guide for rear toe is 0 or +1 degree and similar for the front. Toe-out on the front is better for turn in but not so stable in the straight line. Toe settings are pretty much a personal preference to be honest so there are no ideal settings.
You may want to play with adding more castor angle too as that translates to more dynamic camber, i.e. camber when you need it, in the corners.
Last edited by ///Mster; 17th September 2007 at 23:32.
Yesterday I did the BMW M training on an airfield, with the E36. I took 2 extra wheels with Wanli tyres. For those that don't know Wanli tyres: PS2 is THE reference for a good street tyre. Wanli is THE reference for a poor street tyre. they have no grip at all.
Before the training started, I mounted these tyres on the rear axle.
In the morning, there were some exercises with changing lanes, changing lanes 2 times in a row, braking and changing lanes, etc. Compared to the other participants, my car was more unstable (tyres, tyres, tyres), so I had to adjust and correct more, and be more gentle with the steering.
In the afternoon, most exercises were cornering techniques. With my setup, this meant oversteering, and sliding! Great!!! Approach the corner, break, shift down, turn in, accelerate gradually, and start oversteering, and push push push!! Great! In the 90° turns, I could control the car most of the time (meaning, drift nice straight next to the outer line of cones, full throttle). In the 180° turns, I only managed to do a smooth run when I started drifting at the end of the turn. The instructor showed me a few times how to put it in drift at the beginning of the turn, and slide through it. I'm not up to that yet. I tryed quite some times, but never successful...
Oh, by the way, the rear tyres were almost new at the beginning of the day, and I won't pass the technical inspection with these anymore...
If the weather is OK, I'll be there on Sunday. You're welcome for a lap in the M3. There won't be any (planned) drifting though. I never intentionally drift, and the car has a power/grip ratio that is bad enough so there won't be too much oversteer when accelerating out of a corner.
If the weather is OK, I'll be there on Sunday. You're welcome for a lap in the M3. There won't be any (planned) drifting though. I never intentionally drift, and the car has a power/grip ratio that is bad enough so there won't be too much oversteer when accelerating out of a corner.
Frits.. be there, even if there is some rain..
I will be going no matter what, and I will be going on my slicks even if its raining.
Ill go up there just to have some fun.
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