Mr. Grinch

According to the US and UK web sites, the P GT2 comes out very close to the same price.

Point is though, you can't even buy one for that price. You can't even buy one USED for that price. They sell for more than that. And if you somehow managed to get on a wait list, chances are you paid more in one way or another.

This is a very limited production run. Just as the GT2s were sold before they were made, so are these. Some will be retrofit as race cars, some as collector / show cars. You won't find any of these for sale, just as you will rarely see any GT2 for sale, even used, and if they are it will be at a higher price than the MSRP.

But the point is, this is a limited run simply to meet rules and regulations of the sport, not to make money or sell cars.


Three of the articles I've read suggested the output was IN EXCESS of 350hp anyways. That's for the street version. Other articles have suggested IN EXCESS of 400 for the race version... when it's known they are over 500.

I'm surprised people make such a fuss over an auto that they will never buy and was never intended to be bought, only to meet a racing requirement, like every other car in Lemans. But I'm also surprised people are so unfamiliar with underated output figures. As I've said before, did you honestly believe that Subaru STI, Mitsu Evo 6, or Skyline GTR were only the 280hp regulated maximum output in Japan? There are a lot more examples. Detuning amounts to an intake, exhaust, and chip. The fact is, this car is probably producing at least as much in output in road form, and being a V8, is capable of much more. But the big difference is that the M3 chassis construction is far more advanced than any GT2 on the road today.

But people look at a quoted price that they can't even buy the car for if they had it, and a quoted hp output, and common sense seems to be dropped by the wayside.

Danish

Either I have missed something important here, or am I the only person here that thinks Mr. Grinch doesn't make sense?

Michael

__________________
Michael aka B8 Guru
2003 BMW M5
1998 BMW ALPINA B8 4.6 Cabrio
1995 BMW ALPINA B12 5.7 Coupe
=== A L P I N A B125.7 C L U B ===

Mr. Grinch

What doesn't make sense?

That it's only a VERY limited production to meet ELMS/ALMS rules?

That they don't care if anyone can buy it because it exists only to meet some rules requirement?

That it's sold out already... some will see track time, some will be collectors items?

That it's got a chassis more advanced than the GT2?

That a bigger displacement V8 is capable of more than a boxer 6?

That factories often under rate their product specs?

That you can't buy a GT2 for MSRP either? You're lucky if you can find one for sale at any price, period. And you won't find any but race spec ones here in NA as well, which makes the concern that the GTR road car won't make it here pointless as well.

The only thing that doesn't make sense here is people getting their shorts in a knot about a homologation road legal (very loosely used term) race car that exists only to meet rules requirements. Do you think everyone and their dog could buy the turbocharged version of the M1? Do you think everyone had access to buy the M3 LTW?

If you've got any kind of evidence to refute these claims, you're free to post them too. I'm sure lots of people would be excited to hear about your source for GT2s at MSRP.

JohnH

Perhaps I am getting confused but I have the feeling that BMW will be making two special versions available. One is to satisfy the ALMs racing requirement to have a V8 engined M3 available and this will be done with a very limited availability (already sold out) at very high cost. Additionally a lightweight version of the existing M3 with slightly tweeked 6 cyl engine, carbon bits, special wheels and seats etc. This will certainly be more expensive than the standard M3 but not 3-4 times more!!!

All I have done is piece together bits I have read from different magazines as I have no special links into BMW.

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2006 750i Sport, Monaco Blue, Cream Beige Pearl leather

para22

I don't know what for all this talking is , if you think that the price is too high for something you simply don't buy it , and companies that make things (e.g cars) put a price that peple can pay for something and still the company makes profit. Market rules , eh?
I think buying a race car that is street legal is unreasonable for actually driving it on public roads , and it's so expensive not because of vents in hood or wide tires , that goes for super-light parts made of kevlar , carbon-fiber , or super-technologically advanced engine/chassis , magnesium wheels and so on , stuff that you don't find usefull driving on public roads. So you buy such cars for two reasons : racing or as a show car/ private museum piece. That's it , and you know limited race cars are usually mysterious (remember vector? some pepole claimed that the car wasn't even made and it didn't work) and they aren't sold like you go to your to your local dealer and say i want buy that car and he says , ok , choose your options and in some days we'll phone you and tell your delivery date , it ain't working like that...

Danish

Mr. Grinch,
I don't think the tone of your posts is appropriate. And some of your claims cannot be true.

??? The GT2 is turbocharged and has 462 horsepower. I don't even think it is necessary to compare it to say an M5. The GT2 is in F40 territory. And the worlds fastest street legal car - the 404km/h Dauer 962 LeMans is also a 6 cylinder... Mind you, I love V8's and have three of them myself...

True, but whether this is the case or not here is pure speculation at this point. Unless the info from BMW AG is incomplete.

I have now done so. And any dealer in Germany will sell you a GT2 at MSRP. I have never said anything about the North American market.

BTW: which "articles" about the M3 GTR are you referring to?

Michael

__________________
Michael aka B8 Guru
2003 BMW M5
1998 BMW ALPINA B8 4.6 Cabrio
1995 BMW ALPINA B12 5.7 Coupe
=== A L P I N A B125.7 C L U B ===

Mr. Grinch

"Either I have missed something important here, or am I the only person here that thinks Mr. Grinch doesn't make sense? "

"Mr. Grinch,
I don't think the tone of your posts is appropriate. And some of your claims cannot be true. "

You chose to make a cheap remark, then tell me my tone is inappropriate. Thanks, I'll have to remember that one.



http://www.racingpr.com/cgi-bin/cgiw...ledforalms.txt

"In accordance with the regulations of the Automobil Club de l'Ouest (ACO), which also organizes the Le Mans 24 Hours, BMW Motorsport will be building a limited production run of M3 GTRs in addition to the race version. This vehicle is primarily intended for customer racing. Depending on national homologation regulations, however, it can be distributed with road licencing"

http://www.americanlemans.com/news/092801c.htm

"By using carbon fibre body parts and by completely foregoing any comfort equipment, the two-seater M3 GTR is a car for true purists. An empty weight of approx. 1350 kilograms has been achieved. The 4.0 litre V8 engine with a cylinder bank angle of 90 degrees resembles the race version featuring in excess of 450 hp. Due to the necessary adaptations regarding emissions and noise levels the road version still generates more than 258 kW (350 hp).Engine: 8-cylinder V naturally aspirated engine with 90 degree cylinder banks

Cubic capacity: 3997.3 ccm
Bore x stroke: 94 mm x 72 mm
Max. output: More than 350 hp at 7250 rpm
Max. torque: 365 Nm at 5000 rpm
"

Translated from a German auto news source:

"The use of carbon fiber body sections and the complete renouncement of a comfortable configuration make the two-seat BMW M3 GTR the purists and result in an unloaded weight of approximately 1350 kilograms. The 4,0-Liter-V8-Motor with a bank angle of 90 degrees corresponds to the running version strong over 450 HP in the fundamentals. Due to the modified adjustments at exhaust and noise regulations this engine in its zivileren output carries out still more than 258 KW (350 HP). "

European car
"The M3 gets a V8! For a little over 225 000 USD BMW is offering a road going version of the M3 GTR. During development, BMW designed the strassenversion as close to the ALMS GTR as possible. Although many details have still not been released, BMW claims a horsepower rating anywhere from 350 to 450 HP. The new 4 litre compact V8 fits well within the E46 engine bay. The powerplant is also pushed very low within the engine bay to offer a low center of gravity"

http://www.cars-online.net/article.php?sid=34
"Der Einsatz von Kohlefaser-Karosserieteilen und der völlige Verzicht auf eine komfortable Ausstattung machen den zweisitzigen BMW M3 GTR zum Puristen und ergeben ein Leergewicht von rund 1350 Kilogramm. Der 4,0-Liter-V8-Motor mit einem Bankwinkel von 90 Grad entspricht in den Grundzügen der über 450 PS starken Rennversion. Aufgrund der modifizierten Anpassungen an Abgas- und Geräuschvorschriften leistet dieses Triebwerk in seiner zivileren Ausgabe noch immer mehr als 258 kW (350 PS)."


http://www.bbv-net.de/news/sport/200...otorsport.html

"Die weiteren M3 GTR bekommen zu einem späteren Zeitpunkt das Fahrerduo Fredrik Ekblom (Schweden) und Dirk Müller (Deutschland), das BMW-Team PTG mit den Stammpiloten Hans-Joachim Stuck und Boris Said (USA) sowie Bill Auberlen (USA) und Niclas Jönsson (Schweden).

Die USA und Kanada sind der wichtigste Auslandsmarkt von BMW, dort wurde 2000 ein erneuter Anstieg der verkauften Fahrzeuge um 22 Prozent verzeichnet. Nach zwei erfolgreichen Jahren in der Prototypenkategorie der ALMS will BMW nun in der GT-Klasse angreifen.

Der Einsatz des neuen BMW M3 GTR beim traditionsreichsten Langstreckenrennen Amerikas wird ein Härtetest par excellence. Motorsport-Direktor Gerhard Berger: "Die Entscheidung für das Projekt fiel erst Ende September 2000. Wir haben dieses Auto in Rekordzeit entwickelt und das erste Exemplar erst vor wenigen Tagen einem ersten Funktionstest unterzogen. Wir wagen in Sebring den Sprung ins kalte Wasser, aber ein Rennen ist durch keinen Test zu ersetzen."

Porsche ist der Seriensieger

Seriensieger Porsche (15 der letzten 16 ALMS-Rennen gewonnen) sieht durch den BMW-Werkseinsatz eigene Kundensport-Aktivitäten gefährdet. "Wir stellen uns natürlich der Konkurrenz, hoffen aber, dass BMW im Sinne des Reglements handelt. Es gilt jetzt darauf zu achten, dass nicht eine Kostenspirale in Gang gesetzt wird, die den Kundensport und damit die Philosophie der GT-Kategorie ernsthaft in Frage stellt", sagte Porsche-Sprecher Jürgen Pippig.

Bei der Sportwagenschmiede aus Zuffenhausen will man "peinlich genau darauf achten", so Pippig, "dass Zylinderkopf, Block und Zündfolge bei Renn- und Straßenversion identisch sind. Wir erwarten, dass der Straßen-M3 mit V8-Motor bis Mitte des Jahres vorgestellt wird - genau so wie wir es mit unseren Renn- und Straßenvarianten gemacht haben."

Beim Saisonauftakt in Fort Worth/Texas hatte Porsche mit den Fahrerduos Lucas Luhr/Sascha Maassen (Köln/Aachen) und Christian Menzel/Randy Pobst (Kelberg/USA) den elften Doppelsieg in der ALMS gefeiert."